In this episode, Tyler and Brannon talks about the practical strategies for enhancing empathetic skills. They discuss the importance of active listening, understanding different perspectives, and practicing self-reflection. By implementing these techniques, viewers can improve their ability to connect with others and foster deeper relationships.
Transcript (Tap to Toggle)
how do I get better at empathy Brandon how are you doing man I'm doinggood Good Yeah What about you I'm doing greatNice Um how how was your weekendIt was good man We you can see from my face like I have this like really prominent forehead andthese prominent cheekbones and every single weekend I just get like torched Um so I was the UV rays were like reallybad really o over the weekend just so you know Oh were they Yeah I mean you should see my legs that I I got almostblisters Yeah I was shocked I sat out in just the like the sun We were on this like artificial field for my daughter'ssoccer game So it was like already radiating a lot of heat but then just two hours in the sun and I just think Ijust added another five years to my life So I actually decreased five years offmy life You just took five years off of your life Umum well yeah it was hot It was my legs look funny because like none of me isreally burned except my legs and they're just like just like bright red So
What is Empathy?
anyways um uh just a couple things before we get into the topic today Um Ijust wanted to remind everybody we got something really good going over atreclaimyouheart.org Um it's awesome Tyler do you want to just talk about it just a little bit Yeah we uh we've beengetting a lot of people signing up I'm guessing it's a lot of people who listen to the podcast already but there's a free community and then there's likeupgraded parts of the community if you want more but uh it's basically the reason you're listening to this podcastWe're trying to build a community where there's going to be um structure and support and thenthere's going to be a course and then there's going to be levels of different kinds of support for working your own healing journey overcoming shame traumabetrayal addiction compulsive behaviors And right now it's been pretty cool There's a lot of really cool people onthere There's been some pretty active uh comments that have kind of started We're pretty new on the process Um but man I Iget really excited every day to check my Reclaim Your Heart feed and see what else has been going on Yeah I mean youhave it's it you you can partake as much or as little as you want to And it's anarray of different stuff And so like today for example if you were over at
Why It Matters
reclaimyouheart.org Uh Tyler and I do a a live Q&A where you can come ask us questions in real timeand um so that's today right Yeah that's every Monday Yeah we do some mindfulness stuff We do some educational stuff sometrauma work Uh you can it it's awesome So and and you can join the freecommunity um and you get some information with that but if you joinour community um the paid community if you want to work if you actually want to work on it there's a course that we'vecreated called the healing journey And once you purchase the course you get the upgraded community and it's uh it'spretty robust Yeah it's awesome So anyways just wanted to give a little plug about that we're spending a lot oftime over there and it you know the the question we have today An answer to that is come work theprogram Um if you want to know how to be more empathetic and hold space for people you're going to have to do yourown work So come work our program and it's going to help you be more empathetic We actually are using aquestion that came from the platform today as our topic So this question wasactually submitted over there and now we're doing a podcast on it So So should we dive into it Tyler Yeahlet's dive into it here I'll just read the question Brandon and then we can jump in and and have the discussion So it says I I just made a post that said
Active Listening
"Do you guys want help with anything?" And this came back Any help with empathizing and holding space When Isimply acknowledge a hurt it seems to come across as cold and uncaring But anyattempt to understand the hurt and I seem to find a need to defend the fact that I'm being poorly understood what Iintended to say was so different But of course then I'm gaslighting and or belittling So what I'm hearing is islike if I just try to we need to talk about this concept of holding space I think today in the episode Brandonbecause people don't understand what that really means Um but the the question is really I'm trying toacknowledge that I've done things and that I've hurt my I'm guessing my partner here Um but when I only do thatthen it doesn't feel like it's enough But if I try to step in and understandthe hurt then I find myself getting too defensive to actually hold the space Yeah I I'm wondering there's a lotto this question that we don't know And we we like for example Tyler is thisperson really bad at this or are they getting feedback from their partner that they're really bad at this And thethat's really important that distinction because a lot of times we wait forvalidation from a partner to tell us that we're doing this well And if ifyou're waiting for that for them to give you your grade so to speak or tell you what you're good at what you're not orhow you're getting defensive I you're setting yourself up Um because anability to empathize and to be empathetic is all within you Andum so I if if he really is getting defensive then that's awesome because he's self-reflective and aware thatthat's what he's doing He might not be getting defensive but his partner's really triggered by himtrying to empathize or whatever and he's getting that feedback Do you see what I'm saying Right Well then that leads toanother question Brandon Then that how do you how do you even measure whether or not you're good at empathyLike we probably need to define what empathy is and what what are markers of what it means to be good good at empathy
Different Perspectives
Exactly Um let's do that So what is empathyEmpathy is the ability to connect with the emotion of the other person without making it aboutyourself That's a good one Tyler I like that last part Without making it aboutyourself Um I I think I would take it further than evenemotion It's like an ability to connect to another person's energy Um they'rehow they're resonating and and maybe we could that is emotion right But maybe I'm splitting hairs here but it's it'slike just connecting to them and then not making it aboutyourself So another another term we use all the time is holding spaceYeah And I think that's the hard part that people think people think certain things about that term holding spacethat I think actually pull them away from what an empathetic response is rather than into a more empatheticresponse And yet they think that they're doing empathy in quotes right The you can't fake empathyright Tyler Right And well and here's the there's a dialectic inside of the definition we just gave too The de thedictionary says empathy is the ability to understand and share the feelings of another But we just said the ability toconnect to those emotions or energy without making it about you So here'sthe dialectic is I have to be familiar enough with my own feelings to connect those feelings to your feelings withoutthen making it about me I just laugh because what you just
Self-Reflection
said is true I I understand what you just said I just don't know if many people will because it's so it's like soparadoxical and like well okay that sounds great No wonder we get thesequestions Tyler like you just you just gave us an algorithm that's like whatlike okay okay it's like have you ever seen that movie the mystery man Likeit's like this spoof on superheroes and they uh have like you know Mr Furious and his only thing is he's got an angerproblem Then they have another guy who's a shoveler and his special thing is using shovels And they have a guy whothrows spoons instead of knives You know one of the guys one of the the superheroes is the Sphinx And all hedoes is he walks around and he gives like these really pathy remarks that are like when you know where to stand you'llstand where you know you know like yeah that's exactly how that felt Like ohthanks for answering the question Um but but I really actually I Iactually think that what I just said is on to something there Oh you're you're spot on You're spot on Um we just haveto like Yeah decipher it But but that's the point right That'sI think that's why a lot of people struggle is this word empathy is such a buzzword where it's like yeah beempathetic Empathy is what builds trust Empathy Empathy It's wonderful Breny Brown's like shouting it from therooftops like "Well that's great." And so we're all like "Okay I'm going to be empathetic." And then you go into yourrelationships and you suck at it or you struggle with it and you realize like"Oh this isn't something that I just do This isn't something that I just all ofa sudden figure out." And it it comes back to what I was saying earlier about working your yourprogram in terms of your your doing your own trauma work healing yourself on the deepest levels Your ability to empathizeis directly correlated to to to you trusting yourself and knowing who youare Exactly I I think that's people want to know the skill of empathy And inorder to even start to get to the skill of empathy you have to be committed internally to the practice of shameresilience The more shame resilient you are the better you will be at empathy the more healthily boundaried you areBut you have to have that shame resiliency and those healthy boundaries in order
Daily Empathy
to well in order to connect to somebody with that empathy in order to stay beingfor the other person instead of making it about you Yeah You know so so forexample if uh if my wife comes to me and says "Hey Tyler like you're a terriblelistener." Um if I'm not shameresilient that criticism is going to feel personal That personal story is going to fuel my shame My shame's goingto kick back a response to her that's more about defense defending myself or disappearing or protecting myself andI'm already out of being for her Yeah Whereas what I if I'm shame resilientwhat I can do is I can go wow like the fact that you just said that statement that way tells me that you must befeeling this this this this you must be feeling neglected unimportant devaluedor or just help me understand or wow like yeah can you can you help me understand what's going on for you therewhere that's coming from and then she says well you always choose this and this and this and this and this and this and if I'm shame resilient then I cansit there without making it personal and go sometimes I do choose those things you're right and I can see where you'recoming from I haven't even yet agreed with her all the way right but now I'mthere And now I can stay in this space where I can use myself as an instrumentto connect with with her energy and her feelings and be for her Yeah Without
Overcoming Barriers
even needing to maybe do anything other than connect in that way Well yeah Ithink that is a a really important point Tyler What you just described as empathylike we you and I could give all kinds of reflective listening um skills andtools and this and that But the fact of the matter is is learning how toempathize is learning how to um how to know where they stop and you begin andhow to show up with the emotions and the the feelings that you have to loveEmpathy is love right Um andso you you can only love somebody as much as you love yourself So if you're Tyler if you cometo me and you're like I'm hurt I'm you know I'm sad or Brandon why'd you tell that story on thepodcast And if I don't love myself then I'm like well you told that other storyOr I'm so sorry I'm the worst I'm terrible I'm awful I I'm I'm caringabout loving me in that moment not about connecting to you andwhat that's like for you and and hearing you and holding that space for you Umboundaries have to be there Shame resiliency has to be there Um an understanding of self has to be there inorder to show up for somebody Can we come back to the question that was asked Tyler I want to break that down a little
Emotional Intelligence
Yeah You want me to read it again Again Yeah Okay Let me just see where I had itat here Any help with empathizing and holdingspace When I simply acknowledge a hurt it seems to come across as cold and uncaring But any let's like break thisdown piece by piece if you don't mind Y when I simply acknowledge a hurt it comes across as cold and uncaringOkay just is simply acknowledging a hurt Is that empathyUm I think it's like the very beginnings of trying to understand what you're going to empathize withOkay So what if what if uh I'll give a amaybe dumb example here but what if my wife comes to me and she's justfurious that I left the lights on all night longright But I didn't like I actually turned them all off and my daughter gotup and turned them all on Okay Should I acknowledge that YeahI'm going to acknowledge your hurt that yeah that I turn that I left the lights on all night long I think you're hittingone of the places where people break down an empathy is that instantly is already making it personal rather thanjust about it's about me Yeah it's about me right Instead of just acknowledging
Real Examples
oh I can see that you're upset right now Right now it doesn't even matter what the details are of the situation We canget to that in a second I can see that you're upset right now Yeah So that's that's it Tyler I don't tell her itwasn't me I also don't tell her "Yeah it was me It it was me is another defensemechanism against my own shame I'm lying now." Yeah I'll just do that to get you off my back Yeah So she's saying "Idon't feel safe with you that you'll show up for me." And then I show up lying to her in order to show up for herThat's not empathy What you said Tyler and and you can see it there I'mactually stopping and acknowledging your pain That's it I'mnot coping to anything that's that's not mine to cop to I'm not defending against anything and telling you what is I'mjust acknowledging the pain Okay So So maybe that's what he's doing I don't know But to stop and just be like "Oh ohI like you're frustrated Is that it Are you frustrated Are you sadlike tell me more Yeah Help me help me understand better because I can tell there's something here Right And so whatdoes he say when he does that What happens in this question You want me to go continue on the question Before I dothat let's just and maybe don't let's not go too far down the road We just had a comment to go along with this How do you do that without sounding so genericlike the help me understand cannot say anything else can cannot say anything
Improvement Tips
else and also show empathy is not saying anything holding space So the the uhlike a lot of times you're not even saying anything Sometimes you don't have to say anything to hold space because it'sa it's it's about you Empathy is you using yourself as a complete instrumentyour voice your heart your energy your thoughts all of that comes together to be for your for your person for thebeloved one for the one in front of you that that you're connecting with Yeah So sometimes the words can feel reallycheap because it's like you're trying to jump into words here when and fix this thing when I just need you to be herewith me And so sometimes the be here with you is just like a nod likeYeah or or a hug or but you're reading the situationto see what they need Right Right Sookay Okay So you want me to keep going So Um I simply acknowledge a herd It seems to come across as cold and uncaring YeahAnd it's like what he's saying too really quickly before I go any further is he's saying that his partner is feeling the energy from him likelyThat's like what he's doing is looking at him being like "Well sucks to be you." Yeah Yeah He's not really He'sacknowledging that there's a hurt but he's not connecting to that hurt because he's too afraid that he's going to takeit too personal Yeah So he's acknowledging it without taking it
Recap
personal but now he's not connecting to it at all Well the funny thing Tyler and and we're we're jumping to someconclusions here If he's acknowledging it because he's trying to be good at empathy then he's undermining hisability to to empathize Explain that a little bitI mean it just it has to be genuine And so it's if he's doing it so that he canshow his wife that he's good at empathy he's already made it about him It's it's it's not empathy And and and she willfeel it like she will know Most humans like canabsolutely connect to where is your heart and especially women Um she willshe will know So even if you're saying all of the right things if you're saying all of those right things in order toshow up as a good guy and see I'm a good guy it's still about you That's not empathyUm versus like I actually care about her My heart really is here to listen
Final Thoughts
and to hold this space And and what's beautiful Tyler is let's say she's likefrustrated or something and he he does that he holds space and she's like "See you're doing it again You're just tryingto say all the right words and blah blah blah blah." It's you'll know in moments likethat where if your heart really wants to love her um and you're not concerned about you in that moment then you'llactually appreciate that she's even opening up more to you about her frustration Like oh you're tellingyou're telling me that I'm just a trying to fix it or I'm not empatheticI I want to connect to what that feels like to be in a relationship with someone that you don't feel empathyfrom What is that like That's got to be hard And to be there with her in that rightSo if she comes and she gives you a grade and she says "Nope you're not doing a good job." And you run with that it's just more proof that you're not
Q&A
being empathetic Yeah I think uh one of the skills that's coming up right now along with whatyou're saying I have a client who he's termed it for himself that when he gets into those kinds of scenarios and hefeels himself wanting to either shrink or get defensive or whatever else he has a term go through his mind that he callsit radical curiosity And he's like I can't get defensive or explain anything What Ineed to do is start getting radically curious Love it And so now I'm going to start asking her questions Trying tounderstand Trying to understand Trying to understand And and at a very minimum he's at least showing that he wants tounderstand her rather than explaining himself away or solving a problem or doing something else Mhm So okay So Isimply acknowledge a hurt It seems to come across as cold and uncaring But any attempt to understand the hurt and Iseem to find a need to defend the fact that I am being poorly understood what I intended to say was so differentUm yeah that so there there it is that I mean that's the defense mechanism andthat that is is not empathy What what he's missing is what you said earlier
Closing
Tyler like taking a step back and connecting to her emotion So her wordsmight be "You did this You're you're not empathetic You're this You're that Youyou you you you." And you're taking the bait and going "No notme What I didn't do that I You know versus like what what's sheactually saying What's she saying emotionally What is she saying What isshe saying?" And what you mean by that Brandon is you could almost have the practice of when you say that whatyou're saying is get rid of all of the content of the words and look at the overall process of what she's sayingYeah So this is where people get tripped up all the time with empathy is they get stuck in the content of it and then theyhave to go and define all nitpick all the details So hey on Thursday youdidn't do this and it hurt my feelings and and what we want to do is be like "Well actually it was on Wednesday and I did this and this and this and this andthis." You know like um and now all of a sudden we're totally taken out of empathy because we're so stuck on thestupid content It's so dumb because it's like is the partner going to be like "Ohthat was Wednesday." Oh yeah Wednesday Okay cool It's all It's all good then We're all good Well you said it wasWednesday now so we're fine Things are good Right So so but in therapy schoolthey teach they drill this into you over and over again as a therapist They're like "Every single person wants to get cut up in the content." So a couplecomes in and fights about sex or money or in-laws or whatever else is the favorite flavor of the week If thetherapist only focuses on the content they're not doing a good job Yes Becausewhat they're they need to be doing is focusing on the process And the processis the whole body interaction that's going on between the two partners as they're trying to negotiate the fightabout the money or the sex with the in-laws Because guess what They're going to fight the same about the money thesex the in-laws or where they go out to eat that that weekend if they don't understand what the process is that'sreally going on So when my wife comes to me and says "You suck at listening." And Igo "You're right I'm terrible You deserve somebody better." The only person that sucks worse at listeningthan me is you Yeah That or that Or I'm like "Okay well I'm here I'm ready to listen Like tell me everything I look myears are like way big for a reason." Like um all of that is is still about meand I'm focused on the content of the fact that my wife's upset and I can't handle I can't handle that she got upsetWhereas if I focus on the process I go "Huh something I I trust my wife and shedoesn't normally want to hurt my feelings is just out of the blue So something's going on for her right I canI want to understand what's going on for her I got I want to I want to connect to what's going on for her So then I canstep in and be like "Hey the fact that you just said that tells me that you might be feeling this or this or this." Like what's happening right now Wellyou're this and yeah you I did some of those things in the past and I I hate the fact that you'rehurting that way right I don't like seeing you suffer that way but I'm herefor you Like how close or distant do you want me Well yeah And I'd even becareful with I hate the fact like I see that you're feeling that way Do you seehow like that's sitting in it even more I you know Tyler I quick story mydaughter she wears her emotions on her sleeve She and and she is she's aprofessional from the day she was born at projecting emotions So she'll holdthem and then she'll push them here or push them there And one night she sheblew up and she blew up right at me just like just just angry upset just she shedidn't want to go to bed and she was just like and she was crying and I gaveher a minute and I I feel like I did a really good job at empathizing I went and sat down by her bed and just let hercry and held her Um well we get into it We're like digging into this thing and Ifind out that she found out that day that her best friend uh at school was movingyou know and and that you know she had built this friendship over the year andshe like really loved this friend and it you know really important to her It's interesting like if you look at thissituation she was exploding at me but she was feeling extremely sad andthere was grief there at the loss of a friend And I guess the point that I'mtrying to make is your example with your wife Let's say your wife is like Tyler you you suck at listening That might100% have nothing to do with you Yeah It might have been that she got justdrilled at work all day with nobody listening to her and feeling dismissed and small and then I happen to not payattention for a second and and but if I take all of that personallythen I'm not I can't even be there for her Right So if you sit and you you practice that radical curiosity youdon't make it about you And it it like lets her release that energy thatfeeling of stress at work all day not being heard you know not you know andand she she's she's able to process that with you because you're holding thatspace and empathetic What does that create Safety and trust Yeah That's intimacy connection at its finest YeahThat's love That it's it's that's relationship Yeah RightYeah I've been thinking a lot about this concept lately Brandon and and this is where I think shame resiliency ties toit a little bit is the more shame resilient we are the more self-acceptance we are And the ultimate ability to experience love is actuallyright at the very very depths of self-acceptance You know people always say people always say "I need to learnto love myself." And I've never really had that sit quite right with me But what I think I've kind of been mullingover my brain lately is is that what I need to do is come to a place of accepting all of me including my fulltrue nature Now this is going to get a little bit weird for a second but if andthis is a Christian perspective so bear with me but preach preach We're we'rewe're created we are created in the image of God We are the offspring of Godright And according to Christianity who isGod God is love Yeah So the core essence of mybeing is actually the offspring of love which is loveSo once I accept the deeper that I go into a place of pure acceptance that down in the co down at the core past myego past my thoughts past my five senses at the core who I am islove Once I've accepted that then I'm naturally going to radiate love into the places and the world relationships thatare around me because that's who I am And we're the ones who stifle thatthinking that somebody else needs to show us love or give us love or love us in a certain way When in reality love isbecause it is our being Once we've accepted it we will we willingly give it away to whoever will receive it And andwe're no worse off for it Even if people reject it because at the end we stillare in a place of full self-acceptance Yep So if we're doing our work onbecoming fully self-acceptant which is shame resiliency then it doesn't matterhow it gets packaged up when somebody comes into your office or somebody your your daughter comes and projects allthis stuff at you You go down at the core of my being I'm simply just loveLike what does she need here Yeah YeahBut I still can hold my shape Yes I don't have to take the blame I don't have to agree with something I don'tagree with that all none of that is empathy No empathy is beingfor the one you love It's it's acting in your integrity So you're holding formum at the same time being vulnerable and open to the connection and energy ofanother human being So knowing that you're not going to be influenced so much to the point that you're going tochange shapes like you're going to you're going to be in your integrity But now my heart is open and I am availableto connect And I love what you just said Tyler It's interesting because when inrelationship you feel like somebody does show up with empathy it does two thingsOne it bonds you to them because it just feels good to be loved right And I'm not talking about the codependent weirdunhealthy ways of attachment Just it it feels good Relationship feels good and empathy is how you feel it Um but twoespecially in a marriage or a committed relationship when some when your partnercan hold that space and be empathetic and not take your emotions personal and not defend what it does is it createstrust It's it's like wow I have a I have a strong partner I have a partner thatcan tolerate all my feelings all my stuffand I trust them now Um they're safe for me and I can open up more with them Umso these these little subtleties are not that subtle Subtleties of defensiveness and uh um compliance and fix it and allof those things They're they're loud and clearly like saying to your partner I amnot strong enough and you're too much for me And that just uh just cuts trust andint intimacy off at the knees That's exactly right I'm thinking you know ofyou know Tiknad Han has four mantras of how to be I I think they're basically the four mantras of empathy That's notwhat he calls them But if you listen to them and what we're talking about right now Brandon you'll see that they they overlap And I'm just going to share themNow these are his language but think about the principle behind each one ofthese and use them in your own life in your own relationships with your own language Right So the first mantra fromTiknhan is "Darling I am here for you."really what all that is is about if we're talking empathy Empathy is presence the offering of your presenceAnd you can do that with or without words Sometimes some of the most powerful empathy that I've everexperienced has been wordless It'sbeen I just you know we went to this retreat a while back and I just had some random stranger who I'd only met the daybefore give me a massive hug with no words in an emotional moment In anemotional moment and I felt so deeply seen and cared for in that moment Hedidn't say anything Zero words just presence Darling I am here for you RightHe didn't call you darling up No he used his own language which happened to include no words and just outstretchedarms Yeah And then once I once I hugged him then he had a couple words and I hugged him like kind of like a man hug and then he grabbed me and held me for asecond He's like he's like no be here And then I like and then I eased into his hug and he's like that's right Ilove it And then I was like whoa that is I was like that is right This feels so good right now Yeah And then then he letme go and boom it was done It was over Um but but that he just offered his presence in his way in the moment toconnect to what he could feel in me Right Right He his way it was his way of saying I'm here for you Yeah Secondmantra is darling I know you're there and because you're there it makes me sohappy So the second one is about acknowledging the presence of theother like "Hey the fact that you just said that to me like it's I I joked withthis like the other day like in one of my groups I was like "Guys do you think you can get to?" Like they'recomplaining about how hard it is to go home to like a mad partner or whatever And I was like "Do you think you could get to a point in your own recoverywhere on the drive home you could start to look forward to just having a mad spouse at homebecause you just you're going to because you know exactly what they're going to say and exactly what they're going to do and they're so familiar to you that youcan just love them and know that you know them that well." And uh it's like "Yeah I'm going to I'm going toacknowledge your presence." The third mantrais "Darling I know you are suffering and that is why I'm here foryou." Listen to that one It's acknowledgment of what you just talked about earlier your energy your emotionan acknowledgement of the pain the suffering whatever that's going on There's no fix there's no explanation there's no advice There is simply anacknowledgment of your being of your state of being And I am here for you Idon't have to run from it and I don't have to fix it I can tolerate it I can hold itRight And then the fourth one is this is this is to be used when you're using itin um a relationship where somebody has hurt you but youstill love them And here's the vulnerability You go to them and you say "Darling I amsuffering Please help me." So now I'm acknowledging myvulnerabilities and I'm asking for your help in whatever way I need it Um that's a vulnerable which is wayway different than you suck Yeah I'm I'm suffering I'm struggling I'm you knowjust had this happen this weekend like some weird moment happened in the weekend and my wife got kind of likewhoa something kind of like a little trigger of some anxiety came up and she came to find me and then she when shefound that I was still there and safe and everything it was fine but she like she's like "Whoa." Like and all I had todo is be like all she had to do is come to me and say "Whoa I just had a moment I'm suffering Like I just need ahug." Like and I'm like "Okay yeah." Like "Here hug I'm hug you." Like "What's up Do you want to talk about Nono no I'm good I'm good I just I just need a hug for a second." Okay greatDarling I suffer Please help me Now that's hard when there's been a breach of trust and you don't know if you cantrust the other person yet That's risky That's vulnerable But those four things really if you break it down that's atthe core of what it means to hold space Yeah I am me here foryou and I'm grateful you're there Right I'm present with you Yes Yeah It's aboutpresence I love it Um I love it Tyler I I uh I'd like to dosomething that I'm hesitant to do Uh okay Which isgive I have some things that I think would be really helpful to actually practiceempathy Um and the reason I say I'm hesitant is because of everything we've talked about is the things that I goover right now They they are made possible by you doing your own traumawork understanding that you are love understanding who you are So then youcan really step into these things Um and so and and I'd love your your thoughtsTyler and comments on these So um one is to start to practiceidentifying emotion Um so just just like journal identify your own emotions putwords to them use the emotion wheel Um but practice identifying emotion If youif you struggle at that it's really helpful if you walk in a situation with a person you know if if if they'refeeling sad and you're like "Oh you're angry You're frustrated." and they're like a and and you can't get to sadbecause you only see things one way Um so identify emotions Second thing topractice and this is there's all kinds of ways to practice this Practicenonjudgmentally So learning how to show up without judgment of things And I'mtalking about everything So if I'm looking at at uh this microphone righthere to not label it as anything good bad awesome you know whatever It's justthe microphone And why is that important TylerBecause once we start to layer our judgment on things we've already made it personal Yeah And it happens so quicklyright We do it We do it a thousand times a day Every one of us does It's it's human So if you practice mindfulness andbringing yourself back to the moment and trying to get to this neutral state that neutral state is really important forempathy So when I'm working with somebody or talking to someone or in a relationship with someone I don't labeltheir feelings as good bad or whatever They just are And we're just going to be with them because they just are Okay UmI'm going through these pretty quickly Yeah Uh before you go too far I just say on the first one with getting to know your emotions there's a couple ofpractical things that I have my clients do I either have them get the feelings wheel I had one guy carrying it in his pocket with him all the time Or now Iuse an app called How We Feel which you check in and it'll actually walk you through a list of emotions It's like thefeelings will on steroids And if you just set some alarms on your phone you can check in a coupletimes a day It takes less than a minute But what you're doing is you're learning to speak the language of emotion in your own body Yeah And and once you learn howit feels in your own body you start to key into what you see in other people a lot better Yeah So So that's a good oneAnd then the the non-judgment part I think is is also really good So go ahead Brandon Um the next one is learning howto dig deep and dig underneath You were talking about this earlier Tyler You digunderneath the content and you identify the the emotions So these are reflectivelistening skills um the communication part of actually digging and reflectingand trying to figure out And so when I talk reflect reflective listening skills what I'm not talking aboutis like you you telling people things oryou speaking You're actually truly taking a step back and getting really good at listening Like that's reallyimportant for empathy I know shocker Um but there's some really simple reflective listening skills that canmake a world of difference And if if you're doing your shame resiliency work you're doing your trauma work you stillmight really struggle to listen because you just haven't that hasn't been modeled to you You don't know the toolsSo it's important that you learn how to reflective listen Yeah there's lots of resources you can do for that Um even aeven even a simple book like the classic How to Win Friends and Influence People is a great one that teaches some ofthose things through kind of an entertaining way or you know crucial conversations other things There's someother you you can kind of look up and find active listening skills and there's tons of stuff out there Yeah So I havetwo more Tyler Um and so the next one isyou get really good at at validation And it's fun when you learnthis skill Um but validation is is you know getting to that point where you yousay things like I that makes sense why you feel that way or if I were in thatsituation I'd probably feel the same Um you can practice this with kids andwatch how they respond It's really fun Um you know my my son can be upset aboutsomething that I would never be upset about but when I stop and I listen and Idig with him and I'm like totally makes sense why you're feeling that way man Like I get it You wa watch what happensto him It's just like oh okay Right Um but our what our defensesdo is they they invalidate So what what our defenses do it whetherit's you know fixing things or showing up angry or whatever is they say whatyou're feeling you should not feel Yeah Let me discount your feelings by explaining it away somehow Yep And whatvalidation does is actually help that person know and feel from you thatyou're okay that I feel the way I feel Right We could uh we could probably do awhole podcast just on the you know DBT has something called the six levels of validation and they break downeverything that you just said but they tell you what you just did So you know you were present and paying attentionbut then you showed accurate reflection Then you what you started doing is like oh given our past history it makes sense you'd feel that way Or being a humanbeing of course you'd feel that way right Boom All of a sudden you're in different levels of validation And andthe cool thing about validation is validation never is the is solving the problem It's never solving the problemIt's just saying "I see your feelings and yeah it's okay that you feel that way." it's not even fully agreeing withsomebody sometimes then you can still be highly validating but it makes sense and it's okay or I would feel that way toolike you know okay the the last one Tyler that I would recommend isto practice sitting in vulnerable momentsOkay So like for example when that guy was hugging you Tyler you were able to soften into that And you know what Thatguy he was willing to be vulnerable in that moment too right And you takingthat hug was awesome Him giving it was awesome Me sitting there watching it was awesome So where there's vulnerablemoments m maybe it's something as simple as you know pulling a co-orker aside andjust giving a giving a compliment that's really heartfelt and meaningful that youwant to talk yourself out of giving because um because you that would get they'd think I'm weird or this or thatLike just be heartfelt be vulnerable um practice those moments because in the alot of times we want to jump to like the most difficult moment in order to pull out my empathy and here I am being anempathetic human being right so you got to learn how to be there with people in all thesemoments so um yeah those that's my pointers Tyler I like them Brandon thoseare really good I hope people are listening you know we get this question a lot Brandon like how do I get better at empathy and I think it's one of thosethings that like sometimes the answers we're not quite ready to fully receive as a whole bodyexperience and what we're looking for is the answer to get ourselves out of the pain because somebody told us we're notgood at it rather than genuinely going man I really want to get good at this because I am love and once I know thatI'm love I want to get good at it but because I want to offer my love to the to the world and so so that's why wekeep coming back to do your own work do your own shame and trauma work come to a deeper place of self-acceptance on aregular basis And as you do that and then develop these skills that Brandon just outlined oh my gosh and what's socrazy about it is it reminds me of the quote by Zig Ziggler that says you can have everything you want in this life ifyou just help everyone else get what they want Yeah I love it And um manthat's what empathy is is you want to have a deep rich full fully connectedlife The skill of empathy is gold You will be a very wealthy person when itcomes to connection and vibrance and love if you master the skill of empathyI think the guy who asked that question just got more than he bargained forprobably Um yeah Yeah I mean ultimately you know we're talking aboutlove and in order to love you have to do a lot of your own work to figure outthat you're loved right And then there's all these skills on top of it to be even better at empathy Yeah So um Tyler thatI love talking about this topic It's one of my favorite topics So such an important thing It's it's it'sultimately the the goal of what we're trying to get to Amen and it's right at the heart of everything we're doing Sothank you to our listeners for being here with us We love having some of the comments on the side If you're listeninglive please come and participate in the chat Throw in your own comments and questions Um if you want to become a apart of the show you can go to therapyros.org and you can sign up tobecome a caller on the show We've had a glitch in our system but I think we're getting that fixed So if you're listening to this by the time you hearit on the normal podcast platforms you should be able to go over We'd love to talk with you It's always better becauseyou are the secret ingredient to this podcast So um thank you for being hereWe love you guys And until next time keep on keeping on