How do I stay healthy as I navigate divorce

how do I stay healthy as I navigate divorcebrandon how’s it going man it’s going going well spring is here yeah finallyyesterday was like the best day we’ve had in a long time yeah you know I I I got to tell you like I’m so I’m so likedad like let me tell you okay so I was so proud of myself because Iwent and I bought fertilizer um like a a few weeks back and I appliedit and so I went out of town and I got back in town we had a couple warm days and my grass was like turning green likeearly and it was like the best thing ever you are way too much like dad it’slike I can’t wait for like midsummer when it’s just like thick and I have to mow it like four times a weekyou know what’s so funny about that Brandon is like you know dad dad always took pride in his green grass like hehad the greenest grass on the Oh and he nailed it and he knew how to put right the right down the fertilizer the humates everything and then and then hegot us into like a lawn care business when we were boys i remember him strapping a lawn mower to the back ofour bike with some bungee cords and sending us off down the road to like mow the old ladies you know and then we had

Divorce and Health

did our lawn care business i got so sick of lawn care that in my own house I do everything I can to avoid it i don’teven care if my grass is green so so you’re different you I noticed thatyou have this little like strip for a backyard and I have like a park and I told my wife I want to rip up that stripand put something else there just so I don’t have any grass yeah so yeah wellyou’re like the farmer’s son that like does not want to become a farmer i just want my I want my portion of the land soI can sell out and like put housing on it or something so anyway anyways wehave a we have an awesome guest today we’re excited to have him here um and uhyeah we’ll just kind of turn it over to him so we have Marcus here with us today and Marcus if you could just tell uswhat’s going on fill us in a little bit and we’ll go from there yeah thanks gentlemen it’s been it’s good to good tomeet you um yeah I may take a second just to give you some backstory but uh I mean samestory you hear from guys in recovery of childhood trauma early pornography andsex uh to to cope with it um you know and that uh particularly the trauma for

Self-Care Essentials

me was divorce uh my my parents divorced when I was in 8th grade and most of mychallenges stem from stem from that i mean not excuses but um just where thethe story comes from and uh and yeah I’m been in um recoveryfor 15 months I guess um started a recovery group here in my hometown ornot my hometown but um where I’m living now um some of the backstory of the thechallenges in marriage and my destructive behaviors um there’s been anger issues and like you know throwingthings or hitting hitting things there’s been um the pornography addiction um andthen uh the most egregious ones were taking videos of my wife without her knowledge and that’s one of the biggestones that’s um you know causing this uh in terms of just being irreconcilablefor her um and then uh when I first started recovery uh you know that thingyou guys talk about with just sobriety can be a little bit too much of the focus um was almost like just fuel on

Nutrition Tips

the fire of shame you know and um and here I am coming to group every weeklike “Yeah I slipped you know slipped three times this week.” And other guysare like “I’m on 400 days of sobriety.” And I just went into some deep shame anduh and just started lying about sobriety and we had an agreement my wife and I had an agreement at the time that youknow 30 days of sobriety and we talk about physical intimacy again and and so I just lied through every bit of it andwas just in deep shame and that’s that’s kind of like our D-Day I would say when she found out um that I’d been lyingabout it after uh physical intimacy and so that was back in June of last year umand then uh and then yeah from that I started actually experiencing real recovery and it’s it’s interesting ifound you guys about the time that I discovered that recovery of self forthe first time it was like I was journaling and I was having this feeling and I didn’t understand it and it was like I was like chatting with GPT ontrying to figure out the feeling and it was uh it was dignity and like I hadsuch a reaction negatively to that of like whoa and that like uh that I was

Exercise Benefits

like wow this is you know I’m feeling dignity for the first time in 40 years um and so it’s been from there that likereal recovery has been happening real change has been happening um and as I’ve unraveled codependence it’s almost feltlike it’s made things worse to be honest um and uh and then in that mix umdiscovered an affair you know that my my wife had um had started and had anemotional affair or at least that’s that’s what I know um or what’s been umadmitted to and that was back in July so amidst all this I’ve also had toexperience being a betrayed partner um and then yeah uh come February uh I uhmy wife told me that there’s just no path to a romantic relationship with me uh ever again and that she only seesdivorce as the pathway okay um yeah i I want to ask you just acouple questions um do you come from a big familyyeah how how many kids yeah um I’m the oldest of uh four uh and

Mindfulness Practices

so two two boy or two girls uh two boys two boys nice and you’re the oldest sowhen your parents divorced was was it a shock for you yeah mhm you didn’t expectit it was a paradigm shift completely yeah so they kind of they kind of hid itfrom you like stuff that was going on then all of a sudden like boom um your world was falling apart for sureum and and I just want to dig in a little bit like you say we’ve heard this story before but um I just want to seeif there’s more to it is that is that when your pornography use really ampedup and went into hiding and when you were in your early adolescenceit it it was a little delayed from there um and uh but it it honestly was uh itwas less pornography and but a a sexually active you know young adultlife i mean not young adult but but um you know young high school kidlife pornography specifically really didn’t you know control me so to speakuntil late college um okay and and but

Support Systems

uh but yeah and I mean the deep wounds for me is uh this deep wound of feeling unseen um and then the other is like I’mnot good enough um and then there’s this expectation of of perfection that leadsme to just uh the shame and the despair and insteadof hyperactivity of like oh I just going to control everything it’s just like I’m going to like everything’s going toum I’m just gonna give up um and and I forgot to tell you but wrap in therethat like I I am actually clinically diagnosed bipolar so I have like youknow this this whole other thing of like I’ve experienced some really deep depression i’ve experienced somehypomomania i’m you know on medication so there’s like a chemical component that thrown in the mix no that’s good toknow so that’s a lot that’s a lot and what you’ve been experiencing is is like youknow some people will go and overperform over hyper control try to be perfectother people’s will do kind of what you did which is you know the the researchable term that they refer to isis the what the hell effect where it’s like I’m never going to be able to do this right so what the hell i’m just

Healthy Boundaries

going to like go do whatever I want and then then they go on the binge or whatever and if you and if you kind oflook at it shame if you look at how shame operates it’s in this control and release phase it actually reallyparallels what bipolar is which is man I’m going to go do all this this is going to be amazing and all like whoathis is all horrible terrible i can’t even survive anymore like and it’s just this big swing like being on a teetertotter back and forth the shame does the same thing control control control release and it’s just kind of back andforth and it sounds like sounds like that’s been a big part of your life for quite some time nowyeah yeah very you know pick something up be really talented at it naturallyjust excel at it you know at a rapid pace and then hit rubber meet the roadof like needing consistent long-term work and behavior and then just likegiving up and despair and moving on to the next thing all along fueling your faulty core belief system about who youare and never being enough um remind me again that you I think it was three umbeliefs about yourself that you just brought up um what what were those yeah this deep sense of um feeling unseen

Coping Strategies

it’s it’s like you know I did have success with um the parts work um andand also some of that childhood work so it’s like this idea of like a little boy holding up this thing and saying “Daddylook what I made.” And like you know it’s not good enough have you dug into that of like where that might have comefrom um I mean for me it’sit’s you know unless I’m not getting to the full route for me it’suh I wasn’t good enough to save their marriageoh gotcha it’s my behavior that caused it and if I had been good enough then itwould have it would have been saved wow you I mean that you had a lot of responsibility on your shoulders as aneighth grader um Wowand the other one is um just being unseen and all that you know um never getting never getting the help with thatweight of knowing that that exists and and and helping to release that burden um and and teaching me that it wasn’t

New Hobbies

that that it wasn’t me yeah um because when you’re in it as akid like that’s just that’s your reality that’s just what you believe um thatit’s your responsibility if Marcus was more perfect um if you were good enough you couldsave the family and I can definitely hear you you know you you remind me alot of um someone I know really well um my oldest brother and you remind me alot of him oh man yeah me and Tyler would hit it off like we like you guys don’t know me from Adambut I feel like we’ve we’ve had like a thousand conversations yeah yeah and Tyler are definitely winning image yeahi mean and and I I say this to both you guys like the the the pressure and the weight and it really is unfair becauselike you don’t you don’t know that that’s the system that you’re in you’re just in it and and yet you’re human somistakes you make and deficiencies that you have and all of those things those will be there they have to be becauseyou’re human and yet you hold yourself to this standard of I I got to keep it

Professional Help

all together for everybody else um I got to be good enough for everybody else andmy my goodness and my perfectionism like really matters umyeah that’s a that’s a shame machine if I’ve ever heard of one yeah for sure andand I feel like every time I discovered shame to a very significant degree itwasn’t even the depth you know of where it was um I had a similar experience sixyears ago with parts work where like um I named my shame scar you know it itfeels very similar to that character of like there’s no he brings no physical power he just brings this uh this voiceof doubt you know and and like um and and I really experienced a deeplyemotional connection to it you know talking with it and and starting to uncover and understand its motivationsyou know it’s like um that I just believe in you right i have this likedeep belief in you and know what you’re capable of um and and that really helped me i mean I had significant change fromthat but but I still didn’t understand the depth you know until that dignity moment um last year yeah can you talk a

Staying Positive

little bit more about that dignity moment like you said it was almost unsettling to be feeling it like did youfeel unworthy of it was it just foreign was it like and and how did it come about yeah um so I had I’d finally likestarted have some consistency both with sobriety and um and with journalingevery day um and I had this morning routine of uh it’s it’s a really helpful thing from my group that has been reallylasting and and creating change i’ve I’ve journaled over 120,000 words just in the last um 7 months um and uh and soit’s like a morning of prayer meditation journaling um affirmations andgratitudes for myself and it’s from that probably like it was a good 40 days of like consistency in that that yeah itwas in that morning that morning of journaling and I and I’d been feeling you know so much more confidence likeand it even started to see in how I’d interacted with the world you know I’m just like looking at people in the eyesand saying “Hey that’s a beautiful necklace.” And you know like “Hey man nice jacket.” You know like it just felt

Conclusion

different um and and yeah I was uh I I journal on how I’m feeling that morningand and yeah I just had this um and I I had not discovered your podcast yet bythe way uh and and so I mean it’s it’s everything you describe it’s thiscenteredness it’s this groundedness it’s this root of just me and and you know Ifound it and it was just such a beautiful moment i was sitting on my swing on the back porch um rocking on myswing looking at my flowers and you know listening to my my birds and that’sthat’s what it was for me those kinds of moments are the kinds ofthings that actually move the needle the most in terms of lasting change and cultivating a heart that’s actuallygoing to find real recovery and true peace and happiness in life um and I and I think you knowtalking about that pressure you felt and Brandon you kind of like called me out on this and I I just maybe want to sharepart of my story as it relates to this principle for a second Marcusum we talk sometimes about family roles in our in our practice you know there’sall these different roles that people play i was the family hero brandon played the family mascot my otherbrother tended to be the scapegoat some of the time you know one of my sisters probably the forgotten child you know you could go pick the roles right well II willingly submitted to the role of being the family hero because that was my personality and because I was theoldest and I was the one who was feeding myself all of this pressure to perform and be perfect for pretty much my wholechildhood and I wanted to be perfect for everyone around me because I wanted them to be pleased with me and I didn’t wantto rock the boat and I didn’t want to make waves and because I was human I had to learn how to lie and hide because Icouldn’t show my flaws and weaknesses so much the only thing my brother ever saw was perfection which was hard on him becausethat actually like reinforced his shame of like oh how come Tyler’s perfect and I’m not you know which which by the wayisn’t totally true because I saw I saw the the humanity of Tylerthroughout his life and it I I saw this I saw this facade of perfection i sawhim striving and striving and striving and yet I saw him lose his temper and Isaw him be like really be a human and and and not to cut you off Tyler I I’llhand it back to you in a second but like there was a part of me that was really like dude like like it’s stop like it’sokay you know um so anyways yeah and and here I am thinking that he never saw anyof that and I and I needed to be perfect for him because I was supposed to be agood example and meanwhile he’s watching behind the curtain going like “This dude’s life is coming apart at the seamsyou know like and uh and and that didn’t that didn’t finally blow open untilafter I was married and had my D-Day and then it was in the D-Day that it all broke loose and it was impossible for meto be the family hero ever again in my mind there’s no way because every likethe curtain finally got pulled back and I was left with nothingness and it was in that nothingness that that’s where Ihad some of what you might call your dignity moments where God was speaking to me and saying I finally can love youand I’m like what like h like I don’t deserve your love like I’m I’m less perfect than I’ve ever been and then itall came off brandon you might remember this it all finally fully came off and Ihad this breaking moment we were at a family reunion like a three-day reunion and they did like a daily likeeducational thing and they asked Brandon to do a lesson on pornography and addiction and and Brandon was given thislesson about it and it kind of got heated in the room and there were a few questions and comments that got goingand then my wife raised her hand and she said “Hey Tyler do I have permission tospeak about us?” I’m like “Yeah go for it.” You know because I’m stuck i have to say yes nowand she’s like “Okay well guess what guys tyler’s been struggling with this his whole life and it’s okay like we’regoing to figure it out.” Like she was trying to bring the mood down in the room and uh but she just like totallyouted me and it was like there was energy looking all over the room and allof a sudden was a spotlight like bam right here whoa tyler the golden childin the whole family has had a lifelong secret and I remember on one hand feelingcompletely exposed and vulnerable and in the aftermath I felt adeep sense of liberation and I heard the words in my head and I actually accepted this newrole in my family tyler you’re the fallen hero you’re the fallen hero now andthat’s okay like you don’t have to shoulder the load anymore like give it back to me it’s not yours to carry inthe first place and for me because I’d grown in a in a system all I knew was that that was like a total shift and Iwas like what like who am I going to be then but it was freeing it was likeliberation and and since that day it’s been messy and I have I’ve had to figure out a new role of what the fallen herois um but it’s been beautiful um and I sense that you’re kind ofyou’re in the mode of moving into that space right now if you keep continuing to cultivate the right things and andcultivate humility and openness to what those feelings of dignity are going to bring youyeah no I love that story for sure and and a lot um you know of synergy and inmy story as well um and and yes it has been you know that’s part of why your podcast is so helpful is that like eachstage as I’m experienced these these things then there’s like m there’s material and and context that’s helpingme understand them you know and and like as I’ve unraveled codependency and and started to dothings not out of a motivation to create or manipulate a reality but because it’swho I Um um it’s been really hard to even figure that out you know wait am I am I like So and that’s what I mean bylike sometimes it feels like me getting healthy made things worse in our marriage because there was a periodwhere you know I’m doing all the check marks i’m like I’m like I mean I I told you my routine right i’m like 40 daysinto that you know 50 days into that and it’s like am I doing this for me or am Idoing this for her you know and like and so there was a period where I just likeI did away with everything i’m like I gotta find like if this is the routine that I want for myself you know love itum and and so there’s just been so many things like that where it’s like I have to deconstruct to construct because Idon’t know what’s what and what’s me and what’s me still trying to perform um andand you know how to show up but but then you’ve got you know I’m I’m grounded in in a Christ you know a Christ followerand believer and it’s like how do I show up the world in selflessness but also stay rooted in my own in my own selfwithout you know it’s just like oh man there’s Marcus if I could kind of speakto that I you know how do I articulate this principlei think it’s really important um one thing with with Tyler’s story umhe left a lot of parts out and there was parts when I saw him in really reallydark places um even to the point where I was physically assaulted and that wasanother turning point yeah and and like some really dark places and those darkplaces um you know he was trapped there was no way out there was a what do I dolike I you know how do I feel okay and you just said deconstruct um and it’sit’s interesting because we construct all of our systemswe construct all of our shame all of our paradigms all of our perspectives allthose things are constructed and when we deconstruct them um I think we we wethink that we need to reconstruct And that’s actually not not true andthat moment of dignity that you felt I I also call it nobility i believe that youunderstood your noble worth in that moment and you don’t have to it’s the bedo have thing you when you understand that nobility or that dignity youtranscend all of the messages that you got from your parents from your religion from and you you nowunderstand and because you understand you can surrender and rest inthat grace you can you can just be in that grace and um there’s noconstructing that needs to be happening or working harder or proving yourself or being perfect it’s just like I get it iknow and life’s not going to be perfect i’m not going to be perfect but when I’mimperfect I can go rest i can go tap into that grace right do you understandwhat I’m talking about oh yeah for sure i mean as soon as you said surrender so like I had a similar moment as thedignity moment in trying to navigate this and it was um you know it was aparticular thing that I was trying to understand like how do I act in this what’s true to me and and I’ve had ahard time with step one with surrender because it’s almost like too obvious it’s like of course I believe thatChrist died and like I’m blameless in in front of this magnificent God and he’smy identity of course I do but what do I do with that in a world where I make choices and actions and I take controland like and and so I’m sitting here like journaling on that and he just said Marcus you surrender to the outcome andand it like and and I love your quote Tyler like of ofthat it has process in it right it’s like and and that’s what it’s like youyou have faith in yourself in your trueeness from you in your action and whatever comesdoesn’t it’s it’s like it’s not that it doesn’t matter but it’s like that’s what comes you knowand maybe just add to what you guys are saying what Brandon was saying about construction that my experience has beenthat a lot of the world that I constructed when I was in the wrangle of shame shame andperfectionism were were some of the right activities with the wrong heart and after it all broke and therewas this place where there was room for grace to be imperfect to be loved no matter what in coming to be loved to bea beloved one of God there’s then this energy that starts to emerge that makesyou want to construct something and in my case a lot of what I wanted to construct were some of the things I wasalready doing but I wanted to do them because of my new identity rather thanto get my identity yes like does that make sense oh yeah i mean when you guysintroduced that concept of that we can do that two two actions can look exactlythe same but be from completely unhealthy or healthy energy has beenlike so helpful for me like it I’ve introduced that that concept to my group all the time you know and and it’sdefinitely I mean it’s why I like did away with all the checklist for a time you know of the you know I’m back tojournaling and doing all like that But uh but because I I know confidently now it’s from a healthy place mhm when Oh goahead Tyler i just want to add one more thought here to go along with what you said earlier about now I’m in this space of like how do I focus on myself andtake care of myself but be a Christian man who’s supposed to serve other people i actually think the answer is prettysimple when you boil down to what we’re talking about right now which is the more that I cultivate a relationshipwith my higher power my higher power is going to fill me with all of that love that is God and in that in that fillingme with love there is going to be a reminder and a development of me who Iam my identity and that identity is going to be then in essence it itbecomes the call to action from the master not to be good enough but because he’s saying this is who you are and thenall you have to do is go out into the world and be you and so in focusing on you as it relates to your relationshipwith God and accepting everything he says about you you will naturally manifest to the world all of thegoodness that God intended you to manifest so it’s not a selfish thing to wake up and and say I got to cultivatemy heart i got to take care of my body i got to become a beautiful machine hereand now that I know who I am I’m going to use all of that energy towards the congruency of being exactlywho I am does that make sense absolutely going along with that Tyler the you knowwe can call that authenticity we can call that uh living in your integrity umbut but ultimately that’s what that is is I I love what you just said Marcus if I’m if I’m seemingly doing somethinggood out of shame and fear then I’m not in my integrity because I’m trying to manipulate a situation in order to get acertain outcome if I’m clear with who I am and I’m acting on my intentions andbeing honest and in my integrity um that’s all I can do now does thatmean that um I’ll never get divorceddoes that mean I’ll never experience a bankruptcy or that my parents will will never get divorced either no so if Ilive in my integrity today those things still mighthappen do you understand what I’m saying oh yeah i’m living it so so if if weinsert one thing then it all makes sense and that’s God’s will not not yours butGod’s if we insert God’s will of like look God has us there’s there’s a reasonwe don’t know what that is we don’t know what we’re learning but as long as we know that God has us then those outcomesof divorce or bankruptcy or a loved one dying or whatever they don’t define methat it’s not an indictment of my worth it just is life i’m I’m learningi’m growing and I’m open to those lessons and God is loving me through allof it the good and the bad rightso living a life of surrender right living a life in faith is ultimatelylike true recovery like no more control yeah that’s real recoveryyeah I I love um the saying you have of you know it’s recovery of self um100% um and uh and you touched on the the third one you know you’d askedwhat were the three wounds the third one that I haven’t mentioned that that I’m realizing now too not not just what Ihaven’t communicated is rejection there’s this like deep sense of ofrejection it’s part of like why this divorce is so particularly hard you knowum especially after getting healthy after being a betrayed spouse and wanting to make it work you know and andlike that it’s like yeah the hero has no control youknow and and his world is is crumbling and it’s like what you know like likeTyler was saying you know what do you do now um and and um and and particularly strong wound isnow my children going through this thing that’s like my the depth of my traumaand my wound and that’s that’s particularly just the repetitionof history yes it’s it’s that one is really deep man and I’m having like echoes of uh thewild at heart concept you know by John Eldridge that says you know every man incurs this wound the arrow to the heartthat says I’m not good enough or I’m not man enough and then later on in the book he talks about how every man’s going tohave to navigate at the point of the wound his surrender back to God and manlike your situation is such especially with rejection like here I am finallygetting in touch with a higher power that loves me and offers grace and is leading me to take care of myself havenew healthy boundaries live in nobility living the nobility that I was called to and indoing so I’m losing everything that’s hitting on that very nerve of rejectionand I’m reliving the trauma that I experienced that formed all these beliefs in the first place and you’re now at a crossroads againwhere that crossroads is going to want to suck you back down the old familiar path and back into your shame back intoyour loss back into playing small back into perfectionism or it’s going to continue to invite you into a new spaceof cultivating your heart and confronting the cave that you have to go through andyou’re right on that doorstep and and and the question you you know that the whole title of the episode is “How do I stay healthy as I navigate divorce ithink the biggest principle that’s coming out today and Brandon kind of said it you you kind of really nodded your head is the continued returning toa higher power and surrendering the outcomes and then operating from a place of lovei’m I want to ask you Marcus like this this might this is exactly what Tylerjust said and I want to see if you can apply this um is itpossible for you to grieve with your children for you to weep with yourchildren for you to feel that pain with them and not make it aboutyou do you understand my question yeah thatum that I’m not grieving with them out of shame in what I’ve done or um that II caused this that I’m I’m sitting in the feeling with them that I felt when Iwas a child the empathy holding that with them and showing up for them in the way that that that boywanted seeing them you you Yeah you’ve been them so and you know what youneeded then and if you can if you I if your shame comes up you’ll run and hidefrom this pain of theirs because it’ll be too much for you if you’re able to dowhat Tyler just said if you’re able to let go and know that you’re lovedunconditionally even though this is happening and yeah you have made mistakes along the way but it stilldoesn’t define who you are then you can go sit there with them and give them the very thing that you didn’t get right andand it’s painful still still really it’s a bitter cup um to watch your children hurt like Idon’t know if there’s anything worse than that right um but you’re strong enough to to be there with them throughit so thank you and and Tyler I appreciatedthe um the crossroads narrative i definitely you know that that definitely touched a string you know when you saidthat that that I do feel that that um and um and part of the strangeness ofthe crossroads too is like that this person standing here you know like ishas so little experience you know like that the true self has never navigatedand controlled my life but for seven months basically so like so yeah there’sdefinitely this feeling of of crossroads for sure umyeah and we we we run into those crossroads over and over and over againum I know I quote this a lot but I’m going to quote it for you Marcus because it fits here it’s called the UpwardReach and it says “He stood at the crossroads all alone the sunlight in his face he had no thought for an evilcourse he was set for a manly race but the road stretched east and think about your younger boy in this moment but theroad stretched east and the road stretched west and he did not know which road was best so he took the wrong roadand it let him down and he lost the race in the victor’s crown and he was caught at last in an angry snare because no onewould stood at the crossroads there to show him a better road and here’s your adult self now Marcus another day theself-same place a boy with high hopes stood he too was set for a manly race hewas seeking the things that were good and one was there who the roads did know and that one showed him the way togo so he turned away from the road leading down and he won the race in the victor’s crown he walks today thehighway fair because one stood at the crossroads there to show him the better road you had a chance to ren this it’s agift as much as it is a cave to enter and uh you have you have a new foundrelationship with the higher power and you have newfound relationship with people who are acting in the higher powers’s place to show you a better wayand uh I’m I’m really grateful to have been able to talk to you today and see this little snapshot part of yourjourney even though I know you’re in kind of a rough spot right now yeah thanks guys it was definitelyum really really helpful and and good to good to get to speak with you tooi uh I think of you sitting on that porch and looking at your flowers and feeling what you felt and right therewas the crossroad right there someone was there pointing you in the the right direction and you know God is real andum and I I don’t think you can deny that Marcus you you’ve felt it right um anduh God is showing up for you through all of this turmoil through all the things you’ve been through god is fighting likecrazy for your heart right so I I thisthis conversation I I love it because it’s the deeper work it’s the the realwork of recovery that we’ve talked about today and you’ll navigate your divorcejust fine if you stay in this place of faith and surrender and humility youyou’ll do awesome so thanks for coming on Marcus appreciate youthank you both any last thoughts before we wrap up we know you got a hard stop to get toum man I’ve been cold plunging two weeks heck yeahi love it man scorping high off of it is nuts i I can’t I can’t like I want itevery day it’s so weird yeah it’s its own form of an addictionsometimes yeah appreciate the encouragement because I usually don’t do trendy thingslike I’m like “No I’m not doing that.” And but yeah you guys said it enough we’re like “All right I’m gonna take it.” Yeah well good for you man i’m gladyou’re getting some benefit from it um thank you man thanks for coming on today thanks for the energy you brought todayum we’d love to hear you know months down the road how how your journey is goingyeah I would love to come back um and and I know there’s been an episode on a a male betrayed spouse too and you knowcan share a lot of what that experience has been like too so yeah I would love to dig in with that for sureall right you guys thank you for listening thank you for being here um if this was helpful please be sure to shareit and until next time keep on keeping on