Tyler and Brannon shoot straight about the process of healing.

tyler and Brandon shoot straight about the process of healingDude I can’t wait to shoot straight with you That’s something that’s something you do quite often anyway man Is it YeahOh yeah Am I too intense with it No I don’t think so I think you’re probablyum you’re probably a little bit more of a straight shooter than I am You think Yeah Well I don’t know I think so Idon’t know I I you know I learned that over time I would say like I used to like then then I started doing it and Iwas like I kind of like that No I Yeah it’s you know it’s aninteresting you got to kind of gauge what people can hear and you know knowwhen to kind of reflect back in certain ways or not you know So that’s kind ofthat kind of sums up our what we do every day right Yeah Uh you’re always it’s always a balancing act of how hardcan you push and how much trust do you have and it’s like this weird dance of

What is Healing?

the more trust you have the more you can push and if you don’t have any trust it’s hard to push Yeah Yeah Hey I got tosay you know and we we won’t say too much but uh you know one of your daughters brought a guy to dinner lastnight and I got to say from the little bit I talked to him like I approve So wellthanks man I’ll pass that along because she probably doesn’t listen to this So yeah Yeah Like oh he he was he seemed like agreat dude So yeah I think he’s Yeah I think he’s a nice kid You know we gotwe’ve shot one for one on the on the first daughter and the second one seems to be pairing up where it’ll go Yeahwe’ll see Yeah but but uh Yeah he’s tall so there’s some height thereYeah a lot of height there Yeah So well should we shoot straight Yeah let’s get into it a little bit Brandon And I Iwanted to talk about this a little bit Sometimes people will ask us like “What does it take to actually heal or whatdoes the process look like or what should the structure look like?” And um and so I wanted to talk today with youBrandon and maybe outline a couple of things that are kind of general things across treatment Andthen let’s talk specifically about what it takes to heal with why people listen to us which is usually around some levelof you know betrayal or compulsive behavior or addiction or some trauma andshame But I think these levels of care that we’re going to talk about will apply and we’ll talk about why we

The Healing Journey

approach things the way that we do as a result Yeah I think to understand partof our a big part of our job is uh and what we’ve done over the years isassessment and you know like like any professional helping somebody you firstneed to stop and and see like okay what’s going on and then from there uhwe move forward with a treatment plan and so we look at okay these factorswill you know be really good for your for your healing for your moving forward forward Um and I think with with mentalhealth stuff Tyler it seems a little more like confusing and out there and like whereas other you know otherprocesses of healing it’s like well you know you broke your legs so we’re going to you know do this You’re you’re goingto have a cast for so long You’re going to do some physical therapy and you’ll get better Um the same the same thing applies withmental health stuff and even with relationships Um it’s just that um a lotof times people think that they can just kind of like get over it or stop it orknock it off and it just gets better And that’s just not the case That’s not howit works That’s right Right That’s right And sometimes there’s different levels ofcare that you need based off of what your current situation is Right Right Um and that’s what I thinkthat’s what I wanted to just maybe start Brandon by going over what kind of some of the traditional levels of care areand then talk a little bit about you know maybe our listeners would even start to kind of do their own self assessment of like oh where am I at and

Embracing Vulnerability

what would I need if I was actually really good serious about wanting to to heal wherever I’m at right now Yeah Andthis kind of stems from um we’re not just making this stuff up So this stems from ASAM dimensionum assessment where you you kind of look at certain factors and you assess andyou and you you as you do that assessment you start it starts to become pretty clear like somebody needs ahigher level of care or a lower level of care according to what those dimensionsshow and right so so that’s kind of at least Tyler that’s kind of how I wastrained and and that was for substance abuse um we would use those So ASAM ASAMstands for the American Society of Addiction Medicine So So this is likethe standards of care that a that a professional is supposed to be assessingand saying “I think you need to be at this level or that level based off of the information you just gave me.” YeahRight And Yeah And and I we’re going to dive into this but I would just say before we do I think there is a adrastic um like how do I putthis We there’s a drastic underestimation of what people needum when they’re struggling with things like sex addiction Um and they what theythink we just had a conversation What they think is well I need to go to a couple’s counselor once a week And it’slike okay but like there like more is needed More more is needed than that Umand if I if we were to look at the dimensions and do the assessments we would say okay like here here’s what the

Common Misconceptions

treatment plan would really look like according to what you’re dealing with Right Right Exactly So let’s let’s gothrough the levels and then we’ll kind of apply it to what’s maybe some common things we see in our work uh with thecouples and individuals that we work with Yeah So it’s it goes by levels ofcare and the first level of care is called a 0.5 level of care and the 0.5 level of care is like a it’s like a needfor education or prevention So the DARE program would be like a level 0.5 levelof care That would be an example of that where you go to a class get some education maybe maybe you’ve got yourfirst DUI and they send you to a class about like the risks of driving while intoxicated That would be a 0.5 level ofcare Yeah It’s like if you get a ticket and you go to traffic school it’s like okay I got to go to this school and itwe you know we call it 0.5 but we call it standard outpatient treatment Umwhere it’s basic You you got to check the box get some education and that’s it’s a class It’s more of an educationalclass than it is even treatment A lot of times it’s looked at as like a little slap on the hand as like a consequencefor the behavior that you did So when we’re when we’re assessing for that we’re looking at okay like frequencyduration um other factors and when we’re seeing that this was a one-time eventthis person made a mistake Um we don’t want this to turn into a pattern It’s not a pattern yet They have a lot ofsupport system around them They still have a lot of good recovery capital orlife capital going on They have a good job They have like they got all this stuff going on and like Yeah They need alittle a little tuneup here Yeah Yeah And I and I will say as we go through these too Brandon that the professionalis supposed to look and assess and assign the level of care at the lowest level possible based off of the criteria

The Role of Patience

with an understanding that if if that level doesn’t work then you systematically work up in levels Allright Right So um level one So it goes from 0.5 to level one And level onetreatment is outpatient treatment That’s where most people in in the realm of getting help go They go “Hey I got aproblem We just had this thing blow up in our life or I’ve got this kind of consistent pattern that is actually a pattern that I need to really take alook at Um I’m not getting better on my own.” Then they choose to go to a level one kind of a treatment And that’s wherethey’ll go to like a single group or or a single session a week with a therapist and they’ll do their like one-on-one orcouples counseling and that’s just kind of a level one and they that’s called outpatient treatment Um and it’s justlevel one So kind of regular that’s what most people choose to start with whenthey want to start getting help Yeah Right And that takes anywhere like an hour a couple hours a week is is whatyou’re going to probably be spending if you’re in level one treatment That’s fairly typical And that that’s likesomebody maybe they’re doing a group and maybe they’re doing some individual um level one type Um Tyler one thing Iwant to say as as we go on here Tyler and I aren’t talking about this just to kind of like talk shop on like how we’velearned how to do this or the the goal here is for you to stop and take inventory of yourself and and askyourself the question like I is the care that I’m getting sufficient for healingUm is this like is it helpful And when we talk about shooting straight what wemean by that is like when I do these assessments Tyler sometimes people wouldbeg me beg me to not be at a certain level Like they did not want to be at acertain because it it meant that it required them and a lot of times by law back when I was doing this to spend moretime and energy on themselves and on their recovery Um but the reality is issometimes that is what is needed Um that we wish that we could saythat do do a standard outpatient do a level.5 or you know like and then you’ll

Dealing with Setbacks

get everything will get better and the fact of the matter is is that won’t worka lot of the times right and and that’s where you then would bump up in level of care So most people start at what what’sthis level one which is go to weekly therapy set your goals set your intentions whatever that’s going to beAnd then if you are finding success at level one then you continue at level one and then you taper off and then youyou’re out Um if you are actually having continued problems with the very thingyou came in with then you would bump up to the next level T Tyler before we moveon I got to say that this level one is where mostlike therapy practices um push people into It’s it’s kind of just somehow theway that we’ve been socialized to think of like well I’ll go to a 50 minute or60 minute therapy session once a week and like that’s therapy I’m now in therapy and I’m doing my thing rightAnd as as much as like I love therapy and and all and all that like justbecause that’s how it’s always been done doesn’t mean that that’s what’s effective Um one 50 minute session aweek Um maybe we need to think outside the box just a little bit about the way thatyou structure the work that you’re doing where you can get more touch points and different touch points along the waythat will support your recovery That’s right Right And we’re we’re going to talk about that Yeah that’s that’sperfect Brad And that’s actually where 2.1 treatment goes And 2.1 is called intensive outpatient treatment Intensive

Finding Support

outpatient treatment basically requires that in order one of the criteria for that is is that you need to be up over10 hours per week of treatment related activities in order for it to be calleda 2.1 So that would include things like one-on- ons group work going to 12stepmeetings going to like other structured kinds of appointments But what you’re doing in 2.1 is you’re actually saying”I’ve got a problem and that problem hasn’t been able to be managed at a level one So I need more structure I need more support I need more I needmore more more protection and guidance around me until I can get my feet planted and then you’d start to taperback down to a level one Yes Um but that’s but that’s what level 2.1 is And2.1 you know people will go typically for anywhere from typically they goanywhere from 1 to 3 months at a level 2.1 before they taper back down to alevel you know a level one A lot of times um somebody needs a 2.1 and um butbetween 1.0 and 2.1 that’s the threshold of what they can afford Yeah It’s a biggap That’s what sucks is is it gets expensive at this point Um and and 2.1it’s it’s kind of different across the board Like I could be in a 2.1 and be inday treatment where I’m spending you know 9 to 4 every day five days a weekin a day treatment program That’s a 2.1 Um versus like okay I’m going to eveningoutpatient four nights a week but I’m also going to 12step in these type of things Um so uh but yeah it can getreally expensive And so when I say earlier Tyler that there’s a deficiencybetween what somebody wants to do to get better and what somebody needs to do toget better Um a lot of times they’re in this 1.0 level and they’re not gettingenough but they’re also like I can’t dedicate that much time and energy andeffort and money and resources of my life into this 2.1That gap is pretty stark sometimes you know you’re going from a a weekly session with a therapist is probablygoing to range right now depending on where you live in the country anywhere from $150 to $300 per

Self-Compassion Tips

session right So at the high end once a week you’re paying say $1,200 a month Atthe low end you’re paying 500 a month Um but then you bump over to an intensiveoutpatient and most of those you’re going to be anywhere all over the all over the map but probably somewhere between you know 67,000 to $20,000 amonth in treatment And there’s not very many like comprehensiveum 2.1 um outpatient programs for sex addiction Yeah I mean there’s just notthat many resources there Yeah Um I I know that like in my own work a lot oftimes when I have a client who’s kind of right in that gap of like okay they’re coming here they want to keep comingmaybe they’re doing one-on-one and group but they need a little bit more structure Then we try to build in a 2.1 and say “Yeah you kind of construct itYou got to go to so many 12step meetings a week and go to your church congregation once a week and make sureyou talk to a sponsor once a week.” And we try to get them up to that structure level but it’s it’s hard to do that Umbut it’s it it’s possible to try to do that um if if people need that And a lotof times people really do need the support and the structure even if even if they don’t really want it right Um you know so uh the next the next levelup goes from 2.1 up to level up to the next level which is called in inpatient or residential treatment I forget thenumber too Tyler I think it’s like what it is Well I think there’s there’s a 2.5 and then there’s a 3.1 Okay I don’t knowwhy We don’t know why these numbers by Yeah I don’t know either Uh but it but basically you go to it’s like a

Celebrating Progress

voluntary inpatient and you you basically choose to live there You stay there Usually those are 30 to 60 dayssometimes 90-day programs Um very like you’re immersed in them And then thelast one is the highest level is that you’re basically medically managed intensive patient care and you’re notallowed to leave Yeah It’s like locked down Yeah So those are those are kind of the levels of care right Yeah Um YeahAnd again like the residential level where you’re you’re moving in the placeum can be really effective in some ways because you’re getting out of anenvironment and just purely focusing um but at the same time again reallyexpensive and you put you put your entire life on hold and sometimes that’s what needs to happen And then after anintensive after an inpatient typically it’s recommended that you step downsystematically levels of care So you’d be stepping out of inpatient back into a 2.1 and then kind of like stepping downa staircase So you kind of let go of that structure a little bit at a time as you build in the new way of living andthe new habits and the new forms of connection and everything else that goes with recovery Yeah So let Tyler let’stake like I just want to bounce this off of you Let’s take like a pretty commonscenario So just think of like our average guest on the podcast right Soand let’s say it’s a couple and the couple’s coming in There’s been some infidelity Um that you know they want tomake it work but there’s like resentment and confusion and not knowing how tomove forward Um there’s been compulsive there’s been compulsive behaviors andacting out for years and years far before the marriage even started Um secrecyum you know ju just little things that uh you know maybe like other other cross

Healing in Community

addictions and things whether it’s the phone or the whatever Okay So like we’re just talkingwith this couple and they they’re like “Hey yeah you know we some issues have come up and we need to address this Whatdo you do with that?” Like what would they need What level would they needYeah that’s a good question So I mean in my head oftentimes on kind of first or second appointment when we get thatclassic kind of scenario that’s probably what you and I both get the most BrandonM I think I in my head I think to myself you would really benefit from alevel 2.1 kind of structure to kind of help with the crisis that you’re in right now plus the the establishment ofthe patterns And what we typically do because we haven’t been a 2.1 is is we say you know what you really benefitfrom is each of you doing your own individual work maybe with the therapistand for sure you should consider doing a group and I’m a big believer in groupsUm anyway Brand and I the ASAM actually the preferred form of treatment for forovercoming addictions is actually group treatment because because it’s so effective and because it helps so muchbecause you get a therapist you get a community you get that support you get get the collective energy and you getthe consistency Um and it’s usually a lot more cost-effective for people tooUm so I’m a big fan of that Like if I could do only groups all day every day I would right Um so usually what I do istry to piece together okay well we don’t we’re not quite to a level 2.1 but we’re going to make sure you might go to a 12step meeting You’re going to come toyour group and then you’ll probably work with the therapist and that will be sort of the structure that we can start with And then if the pattern continues wherethere’s continued like you know say continued relapse or something then we would start trying to add in even morestructure Yes Um that’s that’s great And a lot of

Conclusion

times people will will hear that and be shocked a little bit of like “Wow that’s a lot That’s hard.”And so but but I only want to do a 1.0 Like I only I only have the money forthis I only have the time for that I only have the whatever Right And you start there Start at a 1.0 with theunderstanding that if you can be successful at 1.0 great But if noteventually you’re going to need to do whatever it takes Okay don’t listen to my professional assessment Go figurethis out for yourself but come back when you’re ready because it might be time toto do a bit more in your recovery just to get that structure and support YeahUm so I I’ll just to be honest Tyler I’ve I’ve uh for years pieced togetherhigher levels of care for people Um and trying to figure out how to do it reallyas affordable as possible Um you know a client’s working with me and it’s likeokay 12 12step’s great because it’s another touch point that’s free and itprovides community it provides support and it provides some accountability Yeah But it’s not therapy group It’s it’s notthat Um as much as I love the 12 steps and all those things it’s it’s just it’s not therapy Um and so it’s a good one toadd in And if someone I’m working with is going 12step they’re engaged in theirgroup they’re doing some individual work um and they’re also consumingum some good resources like podcasts and books and things like that they usuallytypically start to make some pretty good progress right And you just kind ofyou’ve helped them piece that together in a way that works for them Yeah we’ve pieced it together and givenas many resources as possible And we’re not just talking by the way about the person struggling with addiction Um it’salso for for the person who’s been betrayed And and a lot of times they look at this and they’re likewell like really I got to do all this stuff too and what how does 12 steps make sense for me or a therapy group orbut the reality is is they need the resources too and they need the healing as well Um and so depending on wherethey’re at in their process of healing um their level of care will shift up anddown um similarly Right Right Yeah And that’s that’s been one ofI think one of the biggest frustrations for both you and I over the years that we’ve done this is that gap betweenlevel one and level two has been kind of hard to feel sometimes and sometimesit’s like you don’t need a full level two but you definitely need more than just this level one meeting and andthat’s been that’s been a frustration of ours I think Brandon that’s one reason why we’ve kind of have been movingtowards this reclaim your heart thing and trying to establish what we have over there so that people can get rightat the exact level that they need Yeah And and to understand this um I think weneed to explain a little bit We have luckily with with technology and justwith the way things are now there’s so many ways to do things and so we’vecreated this system of recovery where you can somewhat tailor makehow how much you want to do and anything from attending webinars to askingquestions in Q&As’s to getting support and really and connection to therapistsand to individuals mentors Um you can go there and you can tailor make a systemum for your recovery Yeah So we basically took it and said wecan start with the level 0.5 and people listening to the podcast right now could be similar to like what a 0.5 is It’slike okay I came got some information I left If you go to reclaimyouheart.org it it can start witha level.5 with just like a free community Come listen to the podcast maybe join a few conversations all theway up to anyone who really needs it a level 2.1 kind of level of care And theway that it I’ll just kind of explain how it gets built So you come for the free community and then there’s threedifferent tiers you can join if you feel like you want more structure And the first tier is the the community plus youget three Q&As’s and a mindfulness practice every week and the course the healing journey which is a lot That’sthat’s actually a bit more than a level 0.5 a standard I mean that’s a lot ofstuff but there’s a there’s a thing with that one It’s self-directedright You have to be you have to be the selfarter that’s going to follow through on the challenges and assignments that’s going to build your own team that’sgoing to kind of build on your own the other parts of the structure you need Um but that’s that’s like the first kind oftier is come work the process work the healing journey which absolutely works if you work it and then take advantageof the few calls that we have and the other resources that are there at that level for a little bit of extra supportand structure And some people that’s all they’ll need Yeah Yeah Um the I wouldsay probably the most common level of structure and the ways the reason we built it that way is is that the second level of structure that we built onreclaim your heart is you get the course all those calls and a group led by aprofessional every single week for a year And so there you’re there gettingyour team your core group of other people your therapist and some accountability to push through some ofthe difficulties of the programming Plus you get those extra calls if you want to attend those So you at that point you’reup to close to between all the coursework and the calls and the therapysession you’re up to like a 10 plus hours per week if you want it at all Right Right But most pe most peopleprobably won’t do all 10 but they’ll probably do you know five to seven most likely That’s substantial And and it’slike if you’re struggling with something you can hop on and get a little you know tweak this or help with that Um and uhyeah Yeah it’s it’s awesome So we we sound like salesmen type Well no it’sit’s actually something that I just really believe in And the reason and the reason we created it the way we did is because we see what works Yes Um youknow the last the last kind of tier of this for the people who just like are like I need it all Is like you basicallycome and you get everything that we just mentioned You get the the free platform the three calls plus the mindfulnesspractice plus your group with the therapist plus another group led by Brandon and I together and you also geta pass to the yearly retreat we do for the men or the women depending on whether you’re a man or a woman That’s the full enchilada right there And thenyou get three then you get 36 one-on ones for the year as well to go with itSo that’s like you’re looking at 10 to 15 or 16 hours per week if you wanted totake advantage of all of that with with some individual like verylike specific connected help from professionals who are watching closelywhat’s going on with you And Tyler the thing about it is I I think of this umthis middle tier and that’s the one where you do group um the price point on that is is likeless than doing one-on-one therapy every week Right Right Right I think that’swhat’s so cool about what we’ve done with Reclaim Your Heart and I think this is important to us is if you were to go and look at the levels of care and theprice you’d pay at each level of care we’ve been able to kind of take those same different structured levelsof care and decrease the price significantly for whatever level you’re going to land at Yeah Even eventhe even the big one um I think it can be sticker shock a little bit like whoathat’s a lot But in comparison to going into a really high standard ofcare it’s not it’s actually makes a lot of sense It’s a fraction Yeah Yeah So sothat’s what’s so cool about this and that’s why I think we’re so excited is we’re trying to crack the code of filling the gaps between the levels ofcare and I think that we’ve done it Brandon and I’m really excited about it And I think what we’ve created with the the healing journey plus the communitythat’s there is it’s it’s a phenomenal resource YeahAnd it allows people to get exactly what they need at the level that they need rather than trying to just jump fromstage to stage Yep And you know we’re we’re not telling you the prices rightnow and um we’re more than happy to divulge that but what we want to be able to do is sit down and talk with youfirst and understand your situation Um and then we we’re happy to tell you howmuch this stuff costs And the way you do that is you go to reclaimyouheart.org or either one or.orgreclaimyouheart.org or and you click on book a discovery call and you can bookum with several different people Tyler and I included right now We’re not going to do discovery calls forever So if youwant a discovery call with us uh right now now’s your now’s your shot Um wherewe can sit down with you and really get in the weeds with what’s going on and what do you need and then we’ll tell youhow much it costs Um but we’d love to we’d love to see you We’d love to meet with you Yeah Um and Brandon wementioned this I think it’s actually running on an ad right now on all the episodes but if you’re listening to this right now we’re even doing anotherspecial for my birthday Happy birthday to He just wants to mention his birthdayYeah I never been much of a birthday guy but I like I would rather give than receive on my birthday And so we yeahwe’re doing a 25% off any of the levels of care if if they’re purchased beforemy birthday which happens to be April 25th Yeah And that’s a big chunk ofchange if you’re booking the higher level there So it’s worth getting inbefore April 25th You’re running out of time to do that by the time this episode releases So um hopefully it releasesbefore your birthday Tyler Yeah it it will And people are listening now Um Ido want to say just kind of with what we’re talking about here Brandon like when you look at success and I don’t know like you can you can chime in onthis if you want but when you look at success with people in the past there isthere’s one there’s several different kind of like markers but one marker that always stands out and this is theinteresting thing is is that when you meet somebody who says “I’m willing to dowhatever it takes to get better they get better Andit doesn’t even matter what level of care they end up at It’s the willingness to do whatever it takes toget better that is just as important as whatever the doing was Yeah It’s theheart of willingness And that’s what you’re really looking for and trying to cultivate The reality Tyler is ifI if I cheated on my wife um the the reality is is there’s there’sall kinds of different circumstances that lead to something like that All kinds of different thingsUm it would be awesome and important and good for me if I joined a weekly aweekly therapy group that helped me be honest that helped me live authenticallyhelped me embrace my healthy masculinity helped me love myself and forgive myselftrust myself and help me work through my deepest trauma Help me heal from my deepest trauma Um that is so good for meWhy in the world would I not do that Um and it’s usually shame that’s holding itback right It’s usually shame and it’s also uhlike poor education about what you need to heal It’s all go to therapy andthat’s all I need because that’s all we think Well I’m going to go to group I’m going to go get some education You knowwhat I’m going to spend four hours a week five hours a week That’s a lot It’s a lot But I just cheated on my wife andmy marriage is in the balance and I got to figure myself out because I hate myself right now That’s not a lot That’snot It’s not a lot I’ll shoot straight with you right now Invest four or five freaking hours to save your marriage orto or to heal so deeply that you have peace withinyourself It’s not a lot Um people will spend far more fixing their car thanthey will fixing themsel right Amen And I would say Brandon to to to add to that if I if mylife is in the spot where we’re talking about four or five freaking hours as you would say it isn’t actually a lot butit’s also needs to be the right kind of four or five hours effective It needs to be it needs to include certainprinciples which includes the cultivation of humility accountability empathy structure and support push forchange stepping into courageous things that you’ve been running from and then being loved exactly as you are And ifyou’re spending your time in those arenas that five to six to 10 hours a week is going to be time well spent Yeahin terms of healing your own heart going through your own process and being able to look at yourself in the mirror at theend of the day and like what you see because you can go to bed on a clear conscience Yep Tyler I’m not saying thisstuff and we’re not saying this stuff just to fill up our our practices and our groups The reality is is if youdon’t need this I wouldn’t recommend it to you I really wouldn’t Um if I did anassessment and I understood what’s going on like it whatever’s best for you But Ithink it’s important for for people to know that the resources are there if youneed them That uh it is available and it might be a stretch a little bit timewisemoneywise but if you can make that stretch and do this it can change everything for you It can changeeverything Um and and I I’m living proof of that Brandon From the depths of hell to alife that feels really exciting and and vibrant and colorful And the principles are all there They just need to beworked Absolutely Come join us you guys We’d love to see you at reclaimyouheart.org.orgBrandon Brandon’s got like a brain fart on that Reclaimyouheart.org Now peoplewill remember it See Yeah Um but but yeah come join us You can uh you can get in our you know thefree community there first Kind of check some things out Um and uh just go fromthere and come uh book a discovery call with us Yeah you guys um thank you forbeing with us We love having you be a part of our community here already Hopefully what you get when you come isexactly what you need And uh until next time keep on keeping