Was My Whole Relationship a Lie?

was my whole relationship a lie hey Tyler Brandon I love yoursweater today man hey thank you yeah this is uh I bet you can guess where I got thisfrom you must have been must have been shopping with Dad no nono this isn’t a thrift store that’s not from Sabers no but yeah you are outingme on one of my favorite hobbies which I get made I get made funof all the time by my kids in my life I don’t know anybody more than you and Dad who loves Sabers more oh man when youfind a good vintage t-shirt like there is nothing better like I could tell yousome of the ones I got like they are in I’ve seen some of the ones you’ve got yeah theyamazing M you know you know which one gets the most reaction um I think it’s the one thatsaid uh oh tell me which one tell me whichone the the one that gets the most reaction believe it or not is uh it’s it’s just a blue t-shirt and it saysmake it a blockbuster night and it has a picture of a Blockbuster video store on it that’s it yeah and people come up

Our Beginning

like Blockbuster no way man like oh y i and then like the younger generationlook at it and they’re like What’s Blockbuster like what I was telling mydaughters the other day like you know they there’s like a new song just came out by this artist and they played it for me and I’m like do you know what wehad to do when we had new artists we’d have to go down to Blockbuster Video we’d sit down with headphones onBlockbuster music oh yeah Blockbuster music it would be in the Blockbuster video store and then we’d sit down with the headphones on then we’d have tothumb through every song of a whole album and then we’d have to buy a whole album if we wanted the one song yeah orlike you used to do sit by the radio with a tape recorder like oh it’s on play I did do that before you waited youwaited for like 10 hours for Red Red Wine I think I did I think I did from up40 Red Red Wine yeah I remember that yeah that was a man times have changedyeah anyways um from thrift stores to Red Red Wine here we are um but we couldwe could talk all day Tyler but let’s get in with our guest here and hopefully um get down to some things with her giveher some clarity um we have Vivian with us today Vivian welcome to the show thank you thank you guys for having mehere we’re really excited to have you and if you could just give us some background tell us what’s gone on wedon’t need a full autobiography but enough to understand the context andwe’ll go from there okay I’ll try um so I got married I met this man this mysecond marriage and we met uh like nine years ago and we we hit it offimmediately everything seemed so easy easy conversations and all that and wegot married like a year after so we’ve been together for eight years and it wasa amazing relationship I if I if you would ask me I would tell it was the best marriage I I’ve seen other than myparents so it was really incredible we always got along we had two kids I have two kids and he had two kids and it wasa wonderful blended family the kids felt like they knew each other since the very

Signs of Deception

beginning so we built a really beautiful life uh we actually built a company andwe together we got like three houses together and before we didn’t have muchso it was only gross gross and nice yeah like really always together doing allthe things together traveling a lot together cleaning the house together you know so itfelt very real very intense uh very trueto to me and um um going back maybe thatwas June 2023 the company was going through a very hard process lot ofstress we were being sued by the this workers and we started getting a lot ofstress around the house and I worked in the company as well so we worked together as well so you know married andworking together in the same company and all and that time one day when was mybirthday actually coming back from uh our dinner and I got home and I thosetimes I’ve been getting some emails uh saying that John was seeingthis woman and uh like she she was a hooker a scir of some sort and she sentme those emails like the emails made no sense they were very crazy so eventhough it could be true but they were very crazy all over the place she would call me names she would call him namesshe would make stuff up but there were some real stuff in the beginning in the middle of it and there was a lot ofharassment I started receiving a lot of text messages a lot of things goingon he sworn everything that never happened that he never knew who thatwoman was and is probably this people that were suing us that was trying toyou know make his life difficult in a personal level as well and since there was zero zero redflags in our relationship ever ever I cannot remember one thing that I said toyou that made me think you know never happened so we got a a detective I Iwanted to hire someone to figure out like how and I got this messages from tons of different numbers so it lookedlike a scam so I got this detective they found out who the person was and and we got a

Questioning Everything

restraining order this person came to my house broke the cars in the driveway my daughter got panic attacks from this andit was a horrible thing that he always denied denied denied denied denied and II believed him and the detective uh didn’t find like there wasn’t nothing of them together or anything like this sowe were able to stop the harassment the emails the text and that was it so so we travel right after this wego to to Italy we go to tuskan and for my birthday also it was my birthday tripand in there I find out that all those things were actually true because I sawsomething on his phone and and that was horrible as you can imagine uh it was the beginning ofour trip we’re supposed to be there for 15 days I decided to stay for the tripregardless and that forced us to talk so because we were with each other all dayso we talked and I said I don’t know what I’m going to do I have to come back to the States and see what’s going to be when Igot here I did a lot of I I I always did therapy but I got even deeper into mytherapy and uh I like stepping all over me I decided to stay because I thoughtwhat we had was much bigger than that he said he was stressed then he went forthe easy thing and whatever whatever things he said and I said you know okayI’ll stay if you stay in therapy if you start therapy and you figure out why would you jeopardize everything wehave because of this and so it took me maybe two to three months to come backto me and like to be able to look at him again and uh you know accept that andactually accept I had accepted it and but I did and um and he he wasgoing to therapy and I felt like you know maybe that was only one thing andall so I stayed and I trusted him I Inever looked into anything I never looked into his phones I never looked into his emails even though I had accessto everything I never de I if I’m staying I better trust the relationshipI’m staying in uh and I did and for one year and a half I was sure thateverything was perfect again like nothing didn’t notice anything untilsomething else happened uh um and I one day out of the blue we had just come

Red Flags

home from a walk I found his phone blinks and I and I see a message therethat was very much like the same messages that were being sent to me back then like you ago and then you know thatwas the end of it and I I confronted him and again he’s den nying and and then hecame to me like all the lies that were told to me back then because for me thatwas just one thing one time got stressful even though I don’t agree withany of that I I I I can understand people fail you know I’m flawedtoo but this time not only I found this and I went to his emails and I saw thathe has this this addiction and I know from head to toe all his emails throughthe the months every day he was reaching out to some uh women out there somesquir some something some kind of service so my my question and my thingis like I I don’t know if was what was worse for me if was what he did you knowI understand the and thank you guys because your podcast this happened sixmonths ago so was on September 22nd and I probably heard half of yourall your episodes and because of you I was able to walk through you know thingsand understand his part his sickness and I understand all that and I have a lotof compassion for what happens to him because he knows this kind of self-sabotage because it definitely broke what was something pretty incrediblethat all my friends were jealous of all his friends were jealous of we were talked about everywhere and now to me itfeels like damn was this all a lie like was this all just he wasn’t that personand he just became that person for a while and act like he was a a good guyand you know this compulsion this addiction just brought him back to what he used to be because I know he lived ina lot of chaos before and um I I I keep looking forsome closure which I don’t have because after he did all that his actionsafterwards just kept making things harder and harder and harder because he

Trust Issues

keeps he thinks it’s not what he did is my reaction to what he did that’s alittle too much um Vivian where are you at now interms of divorce are you divorced are you I’m not divorced very slow I I filedum on October 6 right after right after I filed because I had no doubts I I hadgiven him a chance back there even though I didn’t know that he had thisaddiction he knew he knew and he could have done something about it you know hecould have trusted me he could have trusted my love because I stayed and he didn’t so I think he madethat choice every day and now was time for me to choose myself you know also sothe divorce is very slow because I didn’t want to serve him I waited for him them to answer so it took them twomonths and a half to answer and now since we have this company together there’s some issues inthere he wants me to wave my right switch Yeahyeah right so yeah it’s a slow so it’s in the very beginning still okay butit’s been filed and divorce is happening it is happening absolutely happening absolutely happening there’s no way Icouldn’t live with myself I don’t think so you okay this yeah I’m sorry no no goahead go ahead I was just going to say like the things that he did afterwards you know uh this all happened the firstthing I did I gave him a chance to call his kids and tell them what happened andhe never did but he called the kids because he was drunk in a bar the very day after and he told the kids that hescrewed up that he was going to kind of kill himself or something like that then the kids called me they’re not kidsthey’re 24 and 25 but um and then I said no I something it is happening but it’sup to your dad to tell you guys what’s happening and he never did so I I calledevery single one of of the kids and I told I just wanted them to know why I was living their house their their theirlife you know I wanted them to know the real reasons cuz it wasn’t like I didn’t come here to play you know stepmom for abit and leave I I know I gave a lot of structure to those kids and I love themI really do yeah so yeah yeah okay so so I’m hearingthat the divorce is moving forward and you feel grounded in that decision that’s going to happen you feel good about that but in the process of that

Talking to Friends

there’s also an emotional process and you’re kind of having these waves of emotion of was it all bad was I blind Ithought we had this amazing marriage was there anything that was true about that and will I ever will I ever look back onour relationship with fondness or is it going to be tainted for the rest of my life that’s kind of the wrestle I’mhearing in what you’re saying is that and it is and I and I have had this talk to him like I I I said I asked manytimes give me one thing that is true like tell me one truth so I can you knowmake sense of this so of course he won’t come up with anything like I had a simpsimple question like when did that begin you were always like this like wasthroughout our marriage uh just give me something so I can youknow have an idea and he he never said no that wasn’t like that that must musthave been must have started like two years ago but that is not true because I foundproof way back maybe four years ago I have proof that that was alreadyhappening so I like I don’t have any sense were Vivian were you his secondmarriage yes his second marriage do do you know why the first one ended uh sheshe’s sick as well she’s an alcoholic so okay so it wasn’t that it wasn’t thatwas cheating and those things happen in his first marriage I do not know theparticulars because I never really got uh I I know the story because of thekids I always respected the stories the two from the kids and from him matchgotcha gotcha but but there could have been something that you don’t know about it could have been yes absolutely yeah Ijust never kind of questioned I thought you know you know he ended because ofalcoholism and um and that was it um I just have one kindof observation and then one question for you um what what I’m observing Vivian asyou’re talking is just a natural state of grief that you’re in um you’re you’rein a state of bargaining you’re trying to make sense of it um it’s you knowit’s still pretty early I know this is last October but um and you had a you had a pretty uh I’d say hard fall what

My Feelings

what I mean by that is you were in love you felt connected you felt trust allthe way to like not only did you find out about the affair you also found outthat you went through this whole horrific thing and he was lying to youabout what it actually was and you were believing those lies about all the texts and the messages and the detective andall that stuff so it wasn’t just about the infidelity it was it was other liesas well and so here you are that hard fall making sense oflike what what in the world like you know like what is going on here um myquestion for you is you’re seeking some type of validation from him that hislove for you was real and that what you guys had together was real um what wouldthat do for you if you could get that validation what and why do you want thatyeah that that’s the million dooll question right would did what did it do for me like uh does it matter right andI I question and you’re right I’m very much in grief and I did love this man I still love it of course I still love himit doesn’t go away like that it’s I wish right it would be nice huh it would bevery nice and and the funny thing like our relationship when it started I I really didn’t want I was having fun fungoing out with him but I didn’t want to get married it took me forever to sayyou know to to fall in love with him it took me a while and but when I did Ireally did uh and I gave my all absolutely my all I don’t think I gavethis much of me in the first marriage where my kids are from you know and uhum but we still Amazing Friends my ex-husband and I we we always broughtthose kids up together and but I’m suffering yeah absolutely B and I lookat him and he feels like he is in that like he keeps buying more clothes and weyou under the same roof because he didn’t give me the grace to moveout he said he wouldn’t move out this house we built together uh finally nowhe’s going to move out but for other awful reasons as well because I finallyable to make him Mo move out but and all like I was I didn’t finish

Importance of Honesty

my thought when I said to you I called the kids to tell them why I was leaving but my and then my grief goes like henever even spoke to my kids he he had no courage to call my kids and say hey Iscrew up I’m I’m sorry like but I miss you guys and you were important some kind of he was a and he was a wonderfulstepdad wonderful wonderful my kids loved himand and so he never spoke to them my parents that treated him like his theirson like he doesn’t have a mother and father anymore so my parents were likeand and we Brazilians we’re very warm people so my parents were like Mom andDad to him he never was able to say well I’m sorry to my parents like he’s he’sashamed I know it’s because he’s very much ashamed and he’s running from his life but I keep here in the housewatching him like travel I doing something getting here very late atnight and buying new stuff and of course this doesn’t do any good to my mentalhealth uh and yes and some days I’m really good and some days I feel likewhat why are you doing this to me like at didn’t like it’s not enough what hashappened is still going to keep doing it so yeah there’s that and I don’t knowwhat his closure would do to me and of course would I believe it e either because how can I believe in anythingthis man says right nothing so you know I don’t know I think it’s a hang upinside my my my head that uh if he would say something really beautiful I wouldjust yeah you’re right it it seems you know and I’m going to take a stab at this a little bit Vivian I I think it’snumber one just reemphasize what Brandon said that it would be really normal to to be in the space you’re in right nowand anybody in your shoes would be asking the same kinds of questions that you are right now and part of the reasonfor that is because the brain likes to have things in order and it likes to have thingsmake sense and when you’ve been through something like you’ve been going through no matter how hard your brain spins the

Healing and Growth

pieces of the puzzle don’t quite fit together and so the brain keeps going well what about this what about this and if I had this and maybe if I had thatthen maybe this and and so the brain is trying to get things to go oh this isthis is the folder of my experience with my husband and it makes sense to me and I can file it away and right now itdoesn’t have all those pieces put together so it keeps trying to spin andand I think another part of maybe what be going on here and just try this on for a second is that when you’re makinga choice to get divorced then you start looking back at the chapter of thismarriage and all of us everyone everyone as a human beingwants wants the substance of Our Lives to have some kind of meaning we want tohave been through something for a reason and um and so I hear your braintrying to turn to him to give you proof that your marriage had areason and unfortunately he’s I think you see this right his shame is so inthe way that he’s he’s not in a spot to give give you that proof that you were a great wife or that you had greatmemories together or that you shared something really amazing together that you built a company together that you learned together that you raised kidstogether like if you’re waiting for him to give the answer you’re going to have to wait for him to choose to get intorecovery get through his shame look back with fresh eyes and then come back and say and and right now that’s not goingto happen likely but it makes sense that you’re trying to find go some some meaning and go I want to know that thelast nine years of my life had value to them and that they meant something and

Lessons Learned

that maybe they even meant something good there was goodness in those nine years um that’s a normal normalfeeling how does that feel what do you how does that feel to you no it feels right yeah it feels very right and uhand uh yes I I do give myself that validation I know who I am and I knowthe value I bring I I I’m not like sometimes I listen to the podcast and Isee some women telling you their their story and I feel like I want to just go there and pick them up and take them outof there look at yourself a little bit and I know I look at myself I do andstill looking at myself and working inside of me I’m still looking for hisvalidation on this which will never come it has not come it won’t come um becausehe’s not where I am definitely not where I am um and maybe he I and I see the value ofhim in my life I do see I I know he came to and maybe now was time for me to getout of my comfort zone and go for something that I always wanted to go which is a new career I know like Isometimes I feel very uh old and late to start something new but I did and I Isigned up for for I’m going to become a therapist hey yeah and I I’m in schooland I’m trying my my best because if I can help one person not to screw thelives of people around them because of their themselves now working on theirtraumas I want to be that person because what he did didn’t affect only him itaffected all of us Vivian um you know I love what you just saidand you know if you can get to a place of you know not not what is God doing tome um um but what is God doing for me or what is God doing through me um you can

Conclusion

look back at this and say this relationship definitely wasn’t in vainand even the pain even the difficult stuff in the relationship was such awonderful thing was such a blessing and this whole experience if we wrap it all up it propelled you forward intosomething um that you don’t know exactly what that is yet cuz it’s kind of a state of un you know unsettled and butyou’re going to land somewhere and you’re going to look back and you’re going to say I see it now I get it wecan’t see hindsight right now you’re still he’s still in the well he’s not in the house but he was recently you’restill not fully divorced he still is yeah another couple weeks yeah it’slike you know I think of when I I worked hospice as a therapist for for a hospicecompany and so I I worked with a lot of people through the grieving process andsome people would grieve a lot um better than others and uh it just was it workedfor them well and me working in hospice actually really helped me um as Istarted working with betrayal um but there was a bigdifference um when somebody dies uh it’s it’s hard to stay in somesort of denial about that right when your marriage ends but he’s still livingin the house you’re still interacting with him he gives you that smile that you used to like a lot and like he’sstill there there’s still like you still get a taste a little bit of itright and so then it’s natural to go to a place of Yearning or evendenial about the the actual situation and the actual situation is is that he’smentally ill and he is not built to be a husband and a good father right now likethat is reality and I love Vivian that you got those divorce papers and you said I’m standing up for myself I knowmyself you having boundaries and knowing who you are does not take away that youget to go through the grieving process you still get to do that even though you’re having these boundaries and it’sso difficult because it in some ways almost feels like you’ve done it to yourself but youhaven’t see what I’m saying um so yeahthat you know step by step things are going to happen that are going to makeit easier for you to settle into this is the reality and I’m not just in pain allthe time but step by step he’s out of the house now right oh no he’s still in the house he’s still in in a coupleweeks couple weeks he’ll be out um but like little things like he didn’teven talk to the kids or he you know that viven is actually somedenial about who he really is and what’s really go and who you’ve been in a relationship with right do do you seethat yeah yeah I see it’s almost like and and that’s and that’s why I feellike but was any of him real or this now is him I think that’s the hard questionthat’s a and that’s a question that we hear all the time yeah because if itfeels based on all the things that happened that what he’s showing now it’shim really but and maybe that’s that’s him now maybe he’s progressed into thisunempathetic um just selfish place and maybe he wasn’t that nine years ago whenyou met him or whatever right like and so maybe through time he’s become thatbut at the beginning that love was real and but I I wonder I wonder if youknowing that love was real would would help you or not do you see what I’m saying I knowwhat you’re saying and yes it’s a good question to ask myself because um yeahit doesn’t really it doesn’t really do much cuz and then Vivian if I could justgive you if I could give you pure proof just like could hand you something and it’s like all the love and everythingthat was absolutely real would that just give you more hopeand yearning and wanting for that relationship to come back no I think that would just tell methat’s not the love I want for me you know if that was love it’s not the loveI want because sing I want all that that we had but somebody that’s loyal behindmy back right cuz I I I thought he was I never saw otherwise uh but it’s not andthe proof is here so you feel and and now it’s like I don’t want to lose my trust in men I don’t want to think thathow men I like this and he was a wonderful man that always always thanked me for everything I did always um uhcomplimented me on stuff always put me up like never so he did all the rightthings um and now it’s like that little thing well the next one that says allthis stuff to me if they ever is it true are they truthful like who arethese people like you know it’s it’s I I’m very frustrated because I don’tthink I mean you always find out something somebody lied a little bit here lied a little bit that I thinkthat’s just normal we all do it but to this amount you know to thisuh like you know it’s it’s just and not only this uh like all this happens thereAl a lot of money involved on this uh on this his search or whatever you know andit was our money because we built that money you know so all these things kind of it makes it hurts you a little moreyou know always hurts you a little more and and I I have a firm belief that youcannot move on without uh like working Where You Are like being yes like yeahlike know that this relationship was worth it I know was worth it I know it came to teach me a lot of things and itmade me better in several ways and I I know I gave value to it in several waysbut I don’t want to live this and look back and they like oh my God nothing wasgood here you know like nothing any was I know it was but all this lies all theyou know the new things that keep coming is making difficult is making my grief alittle longer than it could have been but I know it’s very recent uh um Ijust he has that that that thing that you said um that we’re looking to makesense of stuff I am definitely looking to make sense of stuff and he makes nosense so there’s no yeah here’s here’s something and Brandon you might have adifference of opinion on this but uh I think something that makes it so difficult to navigate this and this hasbeen my own personal experience a little bit is that I I think it’s possible ourbrains want to be All or Nothing black or white and in reality there were probably some really amazing thingsabout the man you married that were genuine and real and and if I were to go and ask him did he love you he wouldprobably emphatically tell me oh I loved her so much he says this all the timeand then I would ask him well how could you go cheat on your wife and he would have compartmentalized that away fromhis love for you and so you’re asking the same question was all of it just ashow was it just a facade or and if you ask him he would say no like I did careabout you I was grateful to have you I’m grateful for the things that we built together I did love you and and I thinkwith in his mind he did and he but he’s operating from a place of a limitedperspective on what love really is and that’s the work he’s going to have to go do and I think that’s what Brandon’ssaying is is he was loving you yes at the way he knew how and he had all of these fatal flaws that he never wantedto go to work on to fix and so he was going to be limited in the way he could love you it doesn’t mean that you didn’tfeel some of that that part probably was real at times at the level that he couldprovide it even though it was in a small compared to like what real actualloyalty and love is does that make sense it makes sense Iagree I I know he loved me on his uh weird ways compartmentalizing everythingI think love belongs here this is not this is something else this is you know the way he sees things of coursedifferent the the way I see I I do know he did and I do know he he’s feeling hissuffering I definitely and he keeps on asking like please let’s work this out let’s do that there’s nothing to workout oh yeah there’s uh you know going along with what you what we’re talking aboutum having done this for years I’ve seen it so many times and he he really does sound like a like there is definitelyaddiction there um and um but what wesee a lot is where someone struggling with an addiction they they desperatelywant um somebody to love them they want a wife they want a family um and so they they create thatum but then they they still have this addiction and they love their addictionand I hate to say that but it’s true and so then they then they have to figure out okay how can I juggle like how can Ihow can I fool someone and juggle for as long as I possibly can like juggling allthese things then all of a sudden you see his phone and like all the balls fall rightand this is where where Partners really kind of um you know unbeknownst to themthey think okay once I once you drop all the balls and you’re not juggling it anymore and we have to deal with thereality I expect you to just kind of choose me now like it’s like you’re supposed to just like you got caughtit’s all on the table the the problem is is the addiction is still there um the addiction doesn’t go awaysorry um and so what will happen is they will go andstart picking those balls up again okay well I’m juggling now I’m fooling heragain I can have both I need both right I don’t um and that’s where the uh complexmulti-dimensional trauma comes in um so anyways am I making any sense this iswhat you’re going through Vivian you know it is and I see the I’m sure his addictions got worse now uh after all Umaybe not the same one but it changed to others like to shopping to you know every every day comes something more andmore here like a lot of a lot of shopping and he he had some of those before that now that I think of um youknow I always buying too much wine buying too much this to mind colle collecting this collecting thatso I guess it might have changed addiction from addiction it’s hard to think that the person uh loves theiraddiction but I can’t relate my addiction doesn’t do bad to anybody but myself because I love ice creambut but um and I see that and that’s the the part that makes me it brings moreHumanity to this all because I see him as a like with some really big realproblem a good person with a big problem that actually doesn’t want to see howprofound that is yeah he came to me the like when in the beginning he would cometo me why my kids are not talking to me you put my kids against meI I did nothing and the first thing when I talked to the kids first thing I said I said remember your father is a goodperson but he has a problem and he needs to work on that problem he never thought that the kids were hurtby what he did by his actions yes by you know ending his daughter sent me a thisbut but but Vivian do you see I want to point this out do you see like what what he’s saying is the problem isn’t that Idid what I did the problem is that it got exposed that’s the only problem classicaddiction right there and classic that that’s classic I don’t want to work recovery like that that that that energyfrom somebody’s like I don’t I don’t want to deal with this issue I want to go back into this hiding manipulativephase right it’s that’s exactly him every single thing it’s uh it’s now thatI I think it’s so funny when he addresses it as like I made a mistake as if you made like to me youmake a mistake when you’re supposed to turn left and you turn right that’s a mistake but that what you did is not amistake that a choice what yeah like you know but it’s never this you know so thekids were treating him differently because I did something yeah not becauseof his actions VI Vivien I’m gonna I’m gonna ask you maybe a dumb question butum have you cried a lot of tears I cried I did I several several nights likecrying crying crying crying crying crying cry I still cry excellent excellent have you umhave you been just angry have you just felt it inside yourself just likemad no I wanted to I okay I wanted tofeel mad uh my son for one Christmas he made like a pillow H with my picture inhim it was like the the funniest thing ever he gave us as a gift and the other day I picked the the thing I said know II’m going to say all the bad things I want to say to him and I want to punch this pillow and like I’m going to leteverything out I wanted to stop crying yeah but anger anger anger I didn’t feelI feel I felt more like frustration like why in the world someone does this kindof thing when everything seems to but like again that was on my view right like I thought everything was Wonder hesays it was always wonderful everybody around us says the same thing everybodywas kind of everybody was shot you know very much so I don’t know but yeah but II do tend like to answer your question I do tend to want to rush my grief becauseI want to be out of this uh awful feelings you know well well and thepeople get it backwards they think you know I want to be okay so I’ll stuff things and act like I’m okay when I’mnot versus like allow myself to be extreme sad no I allow myself to bereally angry for for five months uh like uh I I stayed here in this house and Iworked through everything that I could work I would sit with the things that would come and I would hate them comingI want them to leave but I I I try to talk to myself and do all the things that I I learned and all the podcasts Ihear and all the books I I read you know I so I try to do all the things and it’si’ I’ve been successful with that because it’s it’s living slowly but itis living I think you’re on the right I think you’re on the right track I know we’re just about out of time here I justmaybe share one other thought for you you know you’ve seen the movie Inside Out have you seen that cartoon no okaythere if the movie is like the characters are all different emotions that are inside of a little girl andthere’s some changes going on in the little girl’s life and towards the end of the movie The Character of sadness isjust like so sad and she’s being dragged by Joy of like through all of these corememories of this girl’s life and and joy doesn’t know it but sadness is just has her hand out it’s just like touchingevery memory like Tink Tink Tink Tink like just coloring them all with the color blue which is the color of sadnessand joy is so upset with it because she just thinks it’s everything should be joyful all the time and yet she doesn’trealize that those memories might have a little tinge of other feelings likesadness and yet they can still be really valuable core memories and I think whatwill end up happening if you just let yourself keep playing through this process you’re in you’re in a grievingprocess eventually you’ll come to a spot where you’re going to look back at this chapter in your life and there will beall of the emotions which will include Joy um but it’ll be yeah there’s thislittle tinge of oh yeah that thing or that thing but there’s also going to be like oh I’m so glad that we had this andthis and this together and it will it will look different than it currently looks and the question about whether ornot it was meaningful will be answered but it’ll come through your own process of grief it won’t come through him um hehe he could offer that and that would be helpful but but you have it within your power to just allow the grieving processto bring the meaning that you’re looking for so um thank you thank you so muchfor coming on today if I could just addum you’ve done awesome work already you’re doing good the therapy you’ve done the boundaries that you’ve hadyou’re where you’re at is normal um but you got to keep trusting yourself to move forward and don’t get caught up inthis grief and pull you backward so yeah I love I love what Tyler just said you know the thing aboutsadness is uh when you uh you know those memories Joys like we just want to bejoyful we just want to think about the joy when you allow yourself to be sad sometimes it feels really good you getyou actually get some relief right um so when you allowyourself to accept what is as painful as it is sometimes it feels really good soall right Vivian thank you so much thank you guys I appreciate it so much thank you thank you thank you you bet thankyou to our listeners for being here with us 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