Transcript (Tap to Toggle) what do you do when your husband is being nasty what’s up Tyler what’s going on Brandon how you doing I’m doing good doing really good that’s that’s good that’s the first time I’ve heard that in a few weeks well good yeah um so uh how was it being a lone man for a week or whatever dude it was well my my side of things was it was kind of funny like did I did we mention this last week or did I just tell you what happened with my wife taking her trip you told I think you mentioned it we mention I think we mentioned on the podcast yeah so it was actually really good I got a lot of work done that that’s the one benefit of having Rihanna and go somewhere is is that I actually feel more inclined to like catch up on all the projects and things that I let slide because I usually like spending time with her so oh you can actually get stuff done when it’s gone is that what you’re saying well I’m I’m saying I I’m not disciplined enough to get stuff done if she’s around because I’d rather spend my time with her yeah look how Tyler spins it to just be a nice just he’s just a nice guy you know it’s all about just loving her it’s just loving her every time it is I I do love being with my wife so you’re the man so you got some stuff done yeah we got some we we got some things done worked on a lot of my uh I’m doing my own I’m doing my own Nasty Behavior assignments on the healing Journey that we developed Brandon I’m working through that on my own again and so I got a bunch of that kind of work done personal kind of internal when you say again like you’re going through it again like I’m doing all the assignments that we created for everyone else who does the healing Journey nice so just give me an idea of where you’re at yeah so I’m currently Midway through people only people who have the program are going to know all this go get the program if you want to know what we’re talking about here but uh I’m currently halfway through the Gratitude Challenge and I’ve been listening to my daily affirmations every day for the last oh nice I actually I haven’t recorded it but I quote it on my way into work every day and I I just got started on my impossible goal about three week about three weeks ago so I’m doing I’m doing three of them at a time right now yeah yeah that’s awesome and those are three big ones but three really good ones that feed you they’re really they’re really good man yeah it’s it’s been really good so far nice love it um well keep up the good work if I can uh support you in any way let me know thanks man I love I love that you’re doing it by the way um I you know I’ve done it I I do it in bits and pieces still um but we can talk about that later so um because we got Tara on the show and we want to get to our guest Tara so Tara welcome to the show thank you thanks for having me you’re welcome um Tara just admitted to us that she’s listened to like us a ton like hours of listening to us so too much yeah it’s good to actually talk to you and um dig into your story and what’s going on with you so if you could just give us some background just bill a in tell us uh what’s going on and we’ll go from there sure um I guess really short version um we my I guess ex-husband now but we’re reconciling but we were married for 24 years um two kids we actually got married because I got pregnant um I was raised by like a kind of a gypsy hippie and he was raised up in the Church Communication parents married you know the whole time um he was kind of raised as an only child like no rules like his parents would tell me he was so good they would sit him next to the G good kid in school so he would rub off on them never needed to be punished or disciplined just this amazing guy like um you know and then for me like I had a lot of childhood trauma parents married and divorced like my five my mom was married and divorced five times lot of abuse addiction um I was Award of the state at like the age 15 16 went off you know on my own um and so we you know I just was very I guess lived in kind of survival mode took care of myself and so you know we just we got along great um you know we didn’t really argue we just kind of lived like these separate lives and um couple years into the marriage he actually got fired for porn I didn’t realize that porn was like an addiction so um I just like I was staying home you know homeschooling the kids and then the next thing you know I was out working three jobs I just did what I did and you know didn’t shame them or um you know I just knew when Things Fall Apart I have to step up and make things work well um you know one day in like 2015 our daughter came home and she was like Mom you know I think you need to check in to Dad and you know this teacher and um for eight years she continued that and every time I would ask or ask what was going on or you know it was just we were both kind of made out to be crazy and um and in 2022 a misfired text that was very very obviously not for me and the group that it was sent to of our friends um everything kind of came out and it was was months of trickle truth but um he was having an eight he was in an eight-year Affair um with a friend who is also our kids teacher it all came out um I talked to her quite a bit um prayed Starting the Talk with her um you know I had to provide a lot of comfort for her she was threatening to take her life and so I’m on the phone with her while that’s happening trying to get a hold of her husband she actually called my kids because she was their teacher she called my kids to like apologize to my kids so you know everything came out um you know it we didn’t divorce because of the affair it was because of the hiding and the lying but the worst part is this inability to the opposite of Mr Nice Guy the opposite of wet noodle um you know an example like I hear you guys say like you know if if you know you offered to give him a back rub would he say no let me give you one he’d be like no I’ll take the back rub and like you know if we go out to eat and he’s like you know I always pick out the appetizer why don’t you pick it out this time and I’ll be like okay I’m really kind of wanting guacamole and he’ll be like well I want a queso you know and so we end up with the queso and you know I really want to go on you know I really wanted to go on a vacation and he’s like you know I don’t want to do all the planning BS but booked and planned one with his friends and just um you know full disclosure I saw all eight years I saw video I saw photos I saw emails I saw a comparison email that she was asking for of our bodies being compared I mean wow I saw eight years of just horror and um and there’s just so much shame that he is very open about talking about it he is he has never blamed me um he you know is in a book club doing Wild at Heart with our son and a bunch of his friends you know they’re adults but um it’s been and he he’s never stopped me from talking about it I’ve done a bunch of therapy and Recovery he’s been with a seap for about two years he’s not in denial about anything like he wants to Setting Boundaries be better and get better but boy I’ll tell you like total opposite of the wet noodle guy it’s like I I can’t really have feelings around anything that happened um because it triggers this immense amount of defensiveness and shame and anger can I just make sure I understand you guys are now divorced it was yeah we’re divorced but our divorce was also really weird it was like let’s just have this Clean Slate let’s just start start fresh let’s get this like necrotic limb cut off and start over like the div like the marriage was even this thing of Shame and so you know I just am kind of like you know so neutral with everything so I’m like all right but we never really I mean and I live on my own but we’ve always still just kind of stayed together and just been doing our own work independently and just recently you know we kind of started reconciling and and going to his seat together um just a couple times now but yeah it’s we’re in this really weird place where you know we want to have grandkids together like not I mean you know what I’m saying like we want to be together with our with grandkids when they come we don’t want our family to be separated we want to my faith is so strong and his is growing and I just feel like when somebody’s repenting and wants to be better and isn’t you know it’s just we’re stuck in this place of just this anger and defensiveness and like this self- protection mode that just is like this barrier to connection who who’s idea was the divorce I think we talked about it together and actually we were together the day the final degree came in and we like hugged each other and we’re talking about this Fresh Start I don’t know I was so afraid of divorce because of what I came from I I didn’t want it I in fact regret doing that I don’t I was in such a state still of trauma and shock it Your Emotions just seemed like the thing you were supposed to do and um gotcha yeah I don’t know that we thought it through it was so easy because we didn’t have to go through lawyers or custody we just sent in paperwork and then it came back and it you know there was nothing we had to we didn’t fight over anything it just was done so interesting yeah and how long ago did that happen um in November it was a year a year in November and so how often are you guys seeing each other now all the time we have you’re in a relationship like you’re together yeah okay um that’s interesting and so his I’m I’m curious a little bit more about his recovery work so because on one hand you’re saying he’s repentant he’s doing these wild heart going seats like accountable he’s honest like I’m hearing two things from you I’m hearing he’s that and then I’m hearing he’s a total jerk selfish jerk um who’s sensitive and can’t handle like he’s defensive so I’m kind of hearing both of those things at the same time I guess my question is is as he as he started this recovery work um have you noticed I’m gonna I’m going to call it Mr mean guy right um have you noticed uh Mr mean guy not being around as much and that he’s actually showing up as an actual like kind person who’s connected to you um is that changing at all um I think Mr mean guy comes out the Seeking Support second I have any sort of like if he shows up late like really late and I upset about that like I I’m so careful about how I react or what my face looks like or what I say because it’s like I’m shaming him if I’m upset about that or so Mr mingi always comes out always if there’s anything connected to like I ran into the affair partner the other day I had to be so careful about how I presented that um you know there our kids we were hanging out with them and our daughter was going through some old pictures in a place where they had been together in our house was in one of the pictures and he knew it and I knew it but I had to just be so careful about not reacting because it he gets it’s like it’s like Lot’s wife you know uh I’m looking back and I have to let go of the P but he can talk about it you know he can talk about it and he be he can be like are you okay were you okay but if I answer honestly then it’s just like can you hear how can you hear how backwards that is yeah right like you run into the affair partner and you’re scared about him getting upset right yeah so okay so if I I just want to make sure I’m clear on this too Brandon was going there I just want to make sure I know what we’re dealing with you’ve been in a long-term relationship you got divorced you’re leaning back into the relationship because you actually see and feel that he’s being sincere and wanting to change repent change his behaviors he’s engaged in good things you feel all of those changes but inside the relationship itself um you’re met with Brandon called him Mr mean guy you’re met with Mr mean guy anytime you have any kind of emotion or feeling or question or the topic turns to the things that have happened in the past yes and the crazy thing is like if I’m having a situation with one of our kids or with work or you know with my mom or something he’s the most like generous empathetic compassionate caring like he’s the first person I would thing to go to but the scariest question he Professional Help could ask me is like if something if he knows it’s a trigger there’s something that happened and he’s like are you okay and right there I’m like oh boy that’s a loaded question you know what I’m saying like like he wants to know and then like this Mr mean guy comes out and he just it’s almost like somebody through gasoline on a fire but I I mean and I got to tell you guys like I have you name it I’ve done it as far as like therapy and groups and celebrate recovery and everything and listening to your podcast has completely shifted my personal growth and healing for me um but and so it’s interesting because I can stand firm now in that and um and not have it affect me or impact me the way that it used to and because I’m able to stay stand firm in that he has this super flare up reactive State and then he needs some time to calm down and then he can come back and be like man I don’t know why I keep doing that I don’t know why I’m so mean to you I hate that I do this to you I hate that I go there every time I don’t know how to like move from shame to empathy you know so so he acknowledges that in the aftermath in the aftermath because I can stand it like my like I’m scared but I can stand Self-Care Tips in it now and kind of confront him once I see he’s calmed down a little but it hasn’t reduced the reactivity in the moment you know yeah so let’s think about that for a second because I think that’s actually really important here um there’s sex addiction there’s betrayal there’s all that that has happened and is going on um but what you’re talking about Tara I’m I’m hearing that there’s um something else that’s kind of the issue right now that you’re dealing with with him um and and and I could say it’s codependency um but even codependency and why would I say he’s codependent to you because his ability to be okay is dependent on if I’m okay yeah and that you just Define codependency there you go okay but like even the codependency um he’s he’s reacting to you um what’s underneath that right and you I mean you don’t have to answer but that’s the question that we need to ask what’s underneath that why is he having like like he’s saying I don’t know why I do that I don’t know why I overreact and I well there’s a reason why and there’s a way to heal and and to do the work to actually desensitize things and not react so strongly in his main attachment his sex addiction was a result of him consuming somebody for his selfworth his codependency with you is a result of him consuming you for his selfworth um and so then we look at that and we say okay he’s lacking some understanding of self obviously because he can’t handle it you know if Tara gives like a if you roll your eyes you know so if we’re focused on stay sober stay sober stay sober or if we’re focused on um be a good boy and do these things go to your meetings and this and that like all those things are great but the reality is is there’s a Moving Forward wound here that is that that has taught him that he’s deficient and that he needs you to be okay and we got to deal with that wound mhm right so what do you think about what I’m saying I agree and you know a little bit so he is going to the seat and he is doing that book club but I can say there’s not been any sort of like um you know he went to like two um 12-step meetings and just kind of fell out of place you know he signed up for like this other like Unchained or something and just when it got hard he stopped you know and um and I think you know even just we did like this EMS Affair recovery thing and the homework was just you know too much and I think when there’s work involved in his own recovery where he has to start touching the things that are uncomfortable or he doesn’t like he just kind of backs out and so um you know there I don’t know what it is that’s there but definitely um whatever it is I’m I just know it’s like I hear so much about Mr Nice Guy and it’s just this like not that it’s not that it is the it’s the total opposite of that where I’m like can you cave a little like can you have a little like you know what I’m saying yeah could there be a softening in the moment I mean it’s what I’m hearing is is at least there’s a softening after the moment which means he’s at least thinking about it he’s capable of going oh geez like I don’t know why that’s happening right now but Conclusion he hasn’t quite put the he hasn’t connected the dots yet to the cave that he fears to enter is all of that stuff the work that he gets to he’s like oh that’s too hard that’s hitting raw nerves he doesn’t understand that by not stepping into that cave he is continually abusing You by not allowing you to you know to have your own feelings because he can’t tolerate them he hasn’t he hasn’t connected those dots yet that his work is dependent on being able to show up the way that he wants to in those moments afterwards it’s like I don’t know why I can’t do that it’s like well cuz you haven’t stepped into the cave all the way yet like you got to go make peace with some of those things that are causing these raw nerves every time your wife looks at you weird or your your girlfriend now looks at you weird like um he has to learn to step into the arena there and and and I just want to maybe mention something else just so that other people who are listening will understand this we know we’re talking about the shame there’s some type of Shame that’s getting hit he has some kind of story about himself about the man he should be or needs to be or that you need to see and when you are seeing something different than he thinks you should that’s when his shame is getting hit right and then that’s going to lead anyone into where three kind of three different places and there’s lots of different language for it you know there’s what we call the shame screens um but basically the the language we use today is the one that you’re getting is that he he becomes kind of of like a controlling chump like I’m going to I’m going to get big and like I’m going to make sure that you see that you know I’m going to control you and I’m not going to I’m not going to show any type of a feeling or affection but I’m going to kind of be mad at you now it’s going to be your fault somehow the second kind of way is you call it Houdini you just disappear just like shrink disappear you’re not getting that from him too much and then the third one is the Mr Nice Guy one that’s kind of like I’ll do whatever it takes like as long as you’re happy with me just don’t be mad at me like I’ll do whatever you want me to do just tell me what to do um it’s all got the same roots of Shame and what you’re getting is is that you’re getting this almost like stronger press to keep you back and you’re like I I wouldn’t mind the nice guy version of like tell me what to do and I’ll just do it all you but but that wouldn’t yield a result either for you no no like even after the affair came out I didn’t want to track him I didn’t want to like I I didn’t want to have any of that control I didn’t I didn’t want that because I’m like I don’t I don’t want to be his mother I don’t want to be his keeper like I you know and so I just wanted like this honesty that I think even now like is hard for him to just if he messes up like it’s yeah it’s exactly what you said where it’s these total opposites where it’s almost when he gets into this state of mind the way I explain it’s like an Auctioneer like I just feel like it’s this bellowing like Fast talking so I can’t get a word in I can’t get a thought in I can’t even cry so he’s shutting all of that down because I I’m so overwhelmed in that moment and then when it’s done and I’m like you know I think maybe you need a timeout or maybe we need a time out like I’m not getting wrapped into the like that cycle or the emotion I can step away then you know he used to run away he used to get angry he used to just get up and leave and now he comes back and he’s like man I did it again like I don’t know why I keep doing that and I hate that I you know keep treating you like this and so it’s it is it’s this it’s the not Mr Nice Guy it’s the opposite end of the spectrum guy that then has more guilt because he just did more to cause more pain you know Tera by the way um you’re extremely forgiving and and kind and and I wonder at what point it’s detrimental to you where he you’re getting taken advantage of because I’m sure a lot of people listening are thinking look at everything she’s been through and look at the eggshell she has to walk on um and yet she’s still trying to figure out how to love him and see the good in him and right and so for you to really ask yourself like okay um at what point is it unhealthy of me to not be boundaried and to right and and I love what you said earlier of like look I’ve been listening to you guys and I’ve learned how to step into my boundaries hold firm even when it’s difficult even when it triggers him um that’s awesome but that’s not what I wanted to talk about um what I wanted to say was you know you say he’s not like a Mr Nice Guy um he’s very much like a Mr Nice Guy um let me explain um a Mr mean guy and a Mr Nice Guy they have the same issue they have the exact same issue they just respond different and so if you have you ever done any like ifs or parts work so the internal family systems a little bit yeah um when we were doing the a fair recovery stuff yeah it’s really interesting like and Tyler can attest to this um when we do EMDR um when we run our Retreats uh when when we do ifs you can you can get somebody to start processing and they’ll start processing and if they get too close they can retreat they can get really scared and the it’s like a it’s like a nerve like think of in your tooth or something where it’s like oh the dentist is oh don’t you dare even touch that one because now now here’s the problem they they do all these defenses in order to avoid the pain so in ifs they call it your Exile part so you have a manager part and you have firefighter Parts these are your protected parts and they protect you from getting to that Exile they do everything they possibly can and he has gotten really really good at that like he’s awesome at that and good for him his protective parts are really good at avoiding that Exile that Exile is a little boy it’s a little boy that has experienced some kind of trauma and some kind of pain that is so vulnerable and so intense that he’ll do everything he can to avoid getting that touch now for some reason as a grown woman as his wife or ex-wife or who he’s in a relationship with you have some kind of special ability to go kind of right to that exile to get really close to it right and so because of that he’s on edge around you because you might get to his Exile you might see it and you’re on edge around him because you’re dealing with his protective Parts all the time that are screaming back at you and saying look I don’t care I’m G to be a jerk I’m gonna I’m gonna like rant and not let you get a word in he he’s so good like good for him now the question is is does he want to deal with the the infected nerve or does he want to continue to figure out how to protect around it and figure out how to have some kind of a relationship with you but always have some kind of distance there because he’s not going to show you everything right yeah does this is this ring true this oh yeah I mean that sounds exactly like what’s going on and you know and I know for me too like a lot of the a lot of my own personal um you know just like I said being a war of the Court like for me it’s is this deeper wound of like you know like will you fight for me you know I’ve also read Wild at Heart and not being chosen you know and not being chosen not just by him but you know even as a child and so you know I understand for me too and then being through so many divorces like the fear of just failing in that way like you know and I’ve had a lot of therapy and just been working through a lot of that myself too and so I understand my weakness coming into this and and that need that I have to um and so you know I just wonder what parts of it’s just I think the hardest part of me is that I am seeing this side of him that I’ve never seen before that’s coming back that’s coming back and being like why do I keep doing that why before it was there was none of that but he’s a bit more inquisitive and accountable yeah yeah I’m actually hearing some work happening in that and that eventually if he keeps doing that work eventually he’ll start catching it in the moment and then he’ll catch it beforehand and event if he’s willing to keep doing that work but he could accelerate that for sure and what Brandon’s saying I love that you can see this I I’ve just pulled up the lyrics to a song that I think go really well with this and then I want to ask you a question all right so this you probably heard the song Demons by Imagine Dragons um but this this is I think what you’re dealing with um I want to hide the truth I want to shelter you but with the Beast inside there’s nowh we can hide um when you feel my heat look into my eyes it’s where my demons hide it’s where my demons hide don’t get too close it’s dark inside it’s where my demons hide um don’t want to let you down but I’m Hellbound this is all for you I don’t want to hi the truth um you guys you hear those kinds of lyrics every time he shows up the way he does to you that’s what’s behind it and you know that um what’s what’s coming up for you emotionally right now Tara um I don’t know why I’m crying but it’s you know the crazy thing is like when the affair started you know he his mom had just died and I was in the hospital um I was really sick I was in the hospital for about a month so I think there was this and I was not doing well and um you know and his right after his mom died his dad moved here and and you know he was like I was the bread winner so I think there was also this feeling of just not that man being able to like take care of his family and then when the affair came out within months like we were doing good and then within months his dad died and his dad was like his best friend and so he like lost his mom then he lost his dad then you know it was just this and the affair came out and it was just this series of like failure after failure and loss after loss and and I just know like he’s like I feel like I can see this really good heart which I think is why I’m not giving up like I I feel like if he was just this like if he wasn’t still coming back like and you know his aunt passed away when his we’re like going through all of this and this lost when his aunt passed away he inherited her home he gave everything to me like he gave everything to me so that I could be taken care of and have what I need and just but I still like I it’s like you said those lyrics and I never really listened to him before but you can see just so much anger and just like when I look at him now when he gets angry like that I’m not even taking it personally because I’m just watching almost like this fire burn inside this person that you know I yeah I don’t know like what’s missing there or what was lost or I don’t know you know but I see all of this and then just trying to like you said like put up this wall this protection to push it all way block it off out I just don’t know what it is that’s in there yeah well that’s what he’s doing is and this is where Brandon was going is is that you by the nature of your relationship with him and who he wants you to be in his life are already this close to the most vulnerable parts of him and every time you start to just skim or touch those vulnerable parts of him what you get is his heat you get that heat and if you see that and the way that you just described it with such tenderness love towards him and understanding towards him you’re already ahead of the game because now you’re not taking it personally but here’s here’s where the rub comes in and I’ll ask you to maybe consider this and Brandon you might have a different opinion on this um if you love him and you can see that his vulnerable parts are right underneath the surface and now he’s thrown up this big protective part the fire that’s now burning you’re you’re in a tough spot because you have to protect your values you have to fight for something that you want in the relationship you have to do it while loving him and sometimes the answer to that is to actually do something that you know will leave him in the wilderness it’ll leave him in a spot where he’s going to have to go actually wrestle with the demons that are there and in fact you might be the biggest gift that you might be able to offer him is to actually acknowledge that that’s what’s happening and then set boundaries and watch the things spin out for a while um because then you’re saying I see you and I’m not doing it this way and the minute you can treat me with respect or talk to me kindly like I’m here for you but I I know there’s another part underneath that and no you’re not going to treat me this way anymore that doesn’t work and sometimes if you love him and you can see his pain it’s hard to hold that side of the boundary because it feels like you’re being mean yeah right yeah the the um just like Tyler was saying one of the biggest gifts you can give him is Detachment and uh an opportunity for healthy differentiation in your relationship so that he has a chance to find God so do you understand what I just said yeah you’re going to need to break that down a lot more Brandon um as long as you’re there and as long as he’s turning to you to say am I okay am I okay am I okay he’s not turning somewhere else to find that and you might give him the answer you’re not okay and that triggers him and he freaks out you might give him the answer that yes you’re wonderful and he’s like okay good fine but that’s not the answer either way if if you’re not detached like like you guys have been too attached in your unhealthy attachment um that if you don’t do that Detachment and that healthy different and it’s going to be excruciating it’s going to trigger those Exile parts inside of him and that you you talk talked about that Tara like when I do that he freaks out M now his like his unhealthy attachment and and his trauma loves your wounds because your wounds are like well I don’t want to abandon him I don’t want divorce because like I went through that so much and I don’t want rejection and I just want to make sure and he’s like okay I can be the biggest jerk ever and she’ll hang in there with me like she’ll be okay do you see what I’m saying um so he’ll play that on you too and so there’s this really uncomfortable important space for both of you which is I’m going to show up authentic and I want you to show up authentic and I’m going to show up compassionate and um with positive regard toward you but I’m going to show up honest and that space is where you stand on your own two feet so that you can love yourself and then open up a possibility for actual intimacy and love with him and vice versa right but but stand on your own two feet means you need somewhere to stand and I I believe that that is really turning to God and saying Within Myself between God and I I’m okay so if my spouse gives me a dirty look or thinks I’m the worst ever then I can actually care about how she’s feeling because I’m okay already independent of her right right that’s what that Detachment and healthy differentiation is so but but it’s excruciating and you’re doing that work right terara yeah yeah it’s hard it’s hard yeah oh yeah yeah it’s hard because like I said we’ve for the most part like we get along great this was just a curveball that I just yeah I just I feel like a lot of everything that we’ve done has been very reactive um and I think just in our own individual healing we’re starting to move into more of like responding with intent and so I think for me too I just needed I you know like I don’t obviously have a lot of support either I’m in this Women’s Bible study and you know the women with me are just probably they’re like family the most supportive people but like just kind of that it’s O it’s okay to a not be okay and then also it’s okay to to detach and um and grow and give him that space and room as well I I wonder especially if you are if you in a moment or in a place of understanding and seeing it clearly and being able to love the the exiled kind of part of him that you’re not really getting to see I picture this almost like you having your arms open towards that part at the same time that this other protective part is coming in and you’re going like I’m not I’m not going there with you right now but I’m here for this part right and what you’re doing is is that as you set your boundaries you’re not just putting up a wall you’re also opening a gate to the other part of him and uh this has been maybe something that’s helped some couples that I’ve worked with in the past with this kind of a thing if he’s willing um but you can is that they’ll actually give that uh that protective part a different name so if his name is like say know his name is John give him a different give that part of him a different name name him you know Fred or something and then you can use that as language in saying hey am I dealing with Fred or am I dealing with you know the softer parts of John um because I I want to deal with the softer parts of John and that’s why I’m here and I want to be able to show my feelings and this is I love John I love yeah I’m I’m All About here for John and I would want to listen to JN I want to hold John but I also I also want to be a woman who’s with an adult John that can hold my feelings that can hold my looks that can hold the role of my eyes that can hold and and am I talking to that guy right now because if I am I’m here and if I’m talking to Fred we’re done for now um and now what you’re doing is you’re inviting him it’s like a call up to him to say hey hang with me be with me give me give me these parts that are hidden behind the fire like I’m I’m here for all of that at the same time I’m not here to be mistreated anymore and and this is this is so hard this is so hard I talked to so many partners like women whove been kind of in your same shoes one of the biggest gifts you could ever give him is if you happen to have a really rough day and you run into the affair partner let him see your tears whoa you just rocked her world Tyler let him see your tears how’s he ever going to learn how to hold him if he doesn’t let you be authentic yeah be authentic be authentic the biggest gift you could give him even if it hurts him when he looks at those tears especially not the tears of like anger you go home and you’re like mad and you’re yelling at him and stuff but what happens if you go home and you show them the vulnerable part of you which is man my rejected part is aching like I am hurting so bad right now and I can’t believe you did those things to me when he gets to see that part of you his protective parts will come up but another part of him is going to go like oh oh I can’t if he’s a good man and you’re going to stay in a relationship with him he’ll start to feel this I can’t afford to keep hurting her this way I can’t keep doing this to her but right now he like he he like you come home you’re like everything’s good except for the fact I can hardly breathe and I’m like puckered so tight because I I don’t have any place to go with my energy he like okay good all is good then we’re good like we’re good like no no let him let him see you you know what’s interesting Tara with everything Tyler’s saying like your childhood you went through a lot of sounds like abandonment and rejection and in your marriage what I’m seeing is that you’re creating a lot of Abandonment and rejection where it’s you know he has an affair that hurts but then it’s like well I can’t be honest and open about how that really makes me feel so I have to stuff that it’s like it’s like I’ve been hurt by a betrayal and now I’m rejected again with my emotions around that betrayal right and for you to and and what Tyler’s ultimately saying is like when you when you give him that opportunity you believe he’ll fail because that’s what you’ve experienced time and time again when you cry when you’re emotional like he won’t hold that space right but you are caretaking for him when you stuff your stuff and you control the situation because you’re afraid versus you being authentic you being honest you being open and when you’re authentic you give him a chance to actually love you he’s not l loing you when you’re being fake and keeping the peace with him right and I get it I get that like you’ve had enough experience in your life where it’s like well if I if I’m that authentic then it get ready because it’s going to be really he’s going to be mean he’s going to be emotional he’s going to be all these things and I love what Tyler said with the separation of like oh Fred what’s up like I see you and you you got to think of like think of is like a three-year-old so like when you’re let’s say you cry because he was something he did triggered you and you’re crying right and he’s like well gosh you’re the worst right he’s just going going going he’s a three-year-old throwing a tantrum yeah how would you handle a three-year-old throwing a tantrum yeah he’s throwing a tantrum because you’re hurt so how would you handle a three-year-old um well I wouldn’t obviously I my I would tell my kids to feel their feelings I always tell them to feel their feelings but that the Tantrum is not acceptable um right and so they would have to you know get themselves to a place where they can settle down and then you know talk about it but yeah nailed it that’s it like that’s what you say to Fred when when he’s you know when he’s him you’re it’s much more easy to take it personal right like he’s telling me I’m horrible he’s telling me I shouldn’t feel these things when you can see his trauma and his Exile part and be like okay there’s the Tantrum there’s Fred hey three-year-old it’s like it’s valid that you’re feeling hurt right now I’m right now I’m hurting um I’m not going to engage with your tantrum um but it’s totally makes sense why you’re feeling that right so just like a three-year-old like I’m not gonna I’m not going to perpetuate the Tantrum here but I’m going to stay honest with you about where I’m at and what the consequences are um does that sound really hard it does um yeah but I also feel that I’m in this place where I just it’s I mean it’s the better option because I just don’t for me it’s like what you guys speak to a lot about you know standing in your values and integrity like if if I’m not being honest with who I am then I lack Integrity because I’m showing up in authentic and then that’s not healthy either and so you know just to keep the peace you know I’ve had a lifetime of that and it hasn’t really got me anywhere but um more hurt so yeah yeah so but I was just also gonna say too like um I’m just really grateful that you guys reached out and um and just so grateful that you just have so much um Grace for these men because there’s you know they get I know there’s something deeper in like all of these men and I’m not you know I just know that that’s not who God created these people you know these men to be this and so seeing it from your perspective like there’s been so many different you know groups and therapy I go to where it’s just so um feels kind of judgmental or just it’s not looking at these deeper wounds for for the men or the women you know and I know women obviously cheat too but um you know I’m just so grateful for your approach and it’s it was so different from everything else that I’ve experienced listened to been involved in and it’s just changed so much for me and so um you know any opportunity I have to share what you guys do I put it out there and it’s sad to see you know what it’s almost like once you buy a certain kind of car then you see that car all over the streets you know everywhere and it’s like once you’ve experienced an affair it’s like all these people around you and you start to see it more and it’s just so you know it’s everywhere and so I just really appreciate not just what you’ve done for me but that I can share it you know with others too and so thank you well Tara you you were so brave to Tara just so everyone knows she submitted a question in writing and I reached out to her and said hey why don’t you come on the show and you did and you are such a gift today to so many people Tera by having done that so I want to say thank you to you for that and I’m so grateful that you’re here um I’m very grateful for the kind words too I’m glad that it’s meant something to you and I would just say that part of the reason why at least my Approach is the way that it is is because it takes one to know one you know I I I’d have to believe that I’m redeemable and so um and I’ve done certain things and so I have to believe that in all of our clients too and people that come through so um thank you for that I I want to check one more thing with you really quickly I know we’re getting short on time to do the kind of work that Brandon and I have just kind of suggested you continue to do you need a team like you’re you’re going to need some women in your corner that are going to kind of like hold you to the fire when you start to want to crumble on your boundaries or when you want to go back to not being authentic and I think I mean I’m just going to read a couple things that have come through today first one a woman named Wendy says thank you for bringing this today Tara and then another lady named Tanya said you’re so strong be authentic Tara like you need that in your corner all the time and so if you have those you know groups at church or whatever that’s going to be important but we want to make sure that you’ve got some structure so that you can fall into the support that’s pushing you towards your changes um I just want to make sure you have some of that in your life right now yeah yeah I there’s so yeah I do my friend an and I don’t know why I’m emotional again but she’s like like I didn’t really you know my mom is just yeah she just kind of stepped in as like a friend a mom a mentor and her faith is so strong and she’s just she there’s anybody that holds me accountable and just reminds me you know to keep my focus on God it’s her I you know I’m not in outside of that Bible study I’m not in any groups right now and like I’ve never done the EMDR you know there’s just a lot that I that I haven’t done but um but yeah I’ve got some really good support behind me for sure I’ve got a couple good friends my friend you know Vanessa I got some really good friends that are that are supportive um to actually like hold me to the fire it’s that’s going to be an for sure so but yes I do thank you are you like recommending any um like is there a group that you’re aware of that might be helpful or something that you would suggest or recommend outside of everything I’ve already done yeah I mean that’s uh the reason I’m asking is because everyone needs somebody in their corner so it’s good that you have people and those people need to be able to learn with you so they can speak your language they need to be able to kind of offer perspective and practice empathy with you and they need to be keep your confidences but then they need to respect your choices yeah and uh if you’ve got a few in your corner that’s really really big deal but yeah both Brandon and I run groups and um and that’s one of the reasons why we run the groups is to try to provide some of that scaffolding and structure to kind of help if it’s done right to help push you back into like the work you’re trying to do so um um if I can just say before we wrap up we’re running low on time but um just what you said really means a lot to me terara like I I’ve been at this for a long time and I’ve been in arenas where um one side or the other gets made out to be the bad guy and um I think one thing that the the three of us together I think we we have this and is that I naturally see the good in everybody and really really good Souls do some really bad stuff and I think they can still feel from me that I see their goodness and I love them and um and I think you’re good at that too Tera and um it’s good that you can still see his goodness right I would love your husband I I I really would like I’d love to like get to know him and dig into things with him um but at the same time just because he’s good does not mean that he has a right to do bad things to you that’s right right both are true both are true so um I just really appreciate your courage appreciate your vulnerability and thank you for coming on today Tara really appreciate you you thank you so much for one one more comment for you this might be somebody you know it might be a different an but we just got a comment from an an that said I just cried so so thank you um thank you to those of you who are here participating thank you for those who listen thank you for being a part of what we’re trying to do here and Tara thank you again for your kind comments today if this is Meaningful to to anybody who’s listening or if you know somebody who’s in a situation where this would be beneficial please please share we’d love to be able to reach as many people as we can and uh again thank you Tara and until next time keep on keeping on